Snapper management fiasco

[warrigul]

i was wondering if somone knows how many commercial fishing liscence's (L1 symbols) were removed from the snapper fishery during all this process over the last couple of years?
that it is for the common man a pro fishermen that can no longer catch over his or her rec bag limit of snapper, pearl pearch, trag, aj's, cobes, spotty's, etc etc.

i think there were more than a couple.

[Smithy]

Fish'n'chippy,

market forces will always drive the snapper price as Samson has stated. As it is, I got told about a shipment of South Australian caught big snapper that were landed here at Mooloolaba for the same price as the local pros. There is always the threat of NZ imported snapper too. With the $AUD buying $1.27NZ or whatever it is, they only need to catch it and get it transported here and can get paid say $12.00NZ a kg in their money or so and they start giving the local fellas a touch up and dropping the local price.

[samson]

warrigul from memory it was about 1500 licences that were taken with no compensation and around 300 still exist and of that 300 i think only about a 70 have rockey reef history that have chased snapper though of that 70 there are a percentage of investers that have bought them and don't fish its all plain an simple full paper trails and full accountability.

cheers Randall

[Lovey80]

Smithy do yo know if any of the QLD Snapper catch heads south?

[Smithy]

Lovey I'd say so. Someone like Samson would be able to tell you more than me. Depends on the pro and how much they catch. There is the whole spectrum from them selling to the local fish and chips shop to big catches going straight to the Sydney or Melbourne markets.

[Lovey80]

Samson can you provide any light on this?

[Aussie123]

Just a guess but I reckon not many QLD snapper would be sent to Sydney Markets.
I trapped snapper for many years in NSW and we constantly got dreadful prices because of the imports that come in every day from NZ and other southern states.
We averaged $10 to $12 kg pre imports and once NZ fish started arriving our prices crashed to a regular $6 to $7kg.
Without the use of traps I couldnt imagine there would be such a surplus of fish once the qld market has been filled.

[samson]

mate as aussie123has said theres no money in it for the small weights caught by qld line guys its better to either get top dollar at your local fish shop or to take a dollar or two less and wholesale them at brisbane,the trap fish in nsw pretty well flood the market and so do south aus fish that go as low as $4 a kg some times its better to get a fixed price all year of around $9kg then to gamble on the market floor.

[Camhawk88]

My understanding is that Sunfish concentrated on what it considered was right for recreational anglers and didn't look at the big picture of snapper management of the three participating sectors. Three years on the RRFF working group discussing snapper catch sharing between Commercial, Charter and Recreational sectors achieved an agreement but this was thrown out by the Sunfish executive despite having two representatives on the snapper working group.

Option 2 in the RIS without any fee and a notional TAC for recreational anglers was the agreed way forward which was acceptable to the three sectors and recommended to Fisheries management.

The Main Roads Minister was appointed to control the Fisheries portfolio and quickly removed the suggested fee in options 1 and 2 and this is where it should have been left. The Minister then ignored the recommendations of the RRFF working group, his own Fisheries departmental staff and proceeded to have discussions with the Chairman of Sunfish which resulted in the new bag limits for recreational anglers and a free kick to the Commercial sector no doubt after discussions with its union the seafood industry association.

Cheers
Barry

Thanks for the explaination Barry.

I just want to make sure I am interpreting this right-

After an agreement was reached by the RRFF the SF chairman rejected it then went behind everyone's backs, including SF, and did a backroom deal with the Minister for Pies and Lamingtons which resulted in regulations for recs and none for pros. Then sunfish come out and say they didnt realise there would be no TAC for commercial?

If this is the case then I cant see SF lasting much longer. Please correct me if I have got the wrong end of the stick- i hope I do.

[rando]

Samson
Take a chill pill.
I have said that you cant make sweeping statements about recs selling their catches.
I have fished recreationally for quite a few years and not seen any evidence of this happening ,despite fishing with quite a number of other fishers.
My point is that if you cannot show it to be true , then it is supposition.
Further I have asked this community to either confirm or dismiss your assertion that this happens, because, I cant make a sweeping statement based solely on what i think happens.
So far there is no response from anyone with first hand knowledge of commercial activity by recs.
So you either believe that none of us have a moral compass or we are all stupid.

Further you state that I am one of the most "anti commercial sector" contributers to this board, On what do you base that statement???

[Aussie123]

I love these threads about black markets where the pro's and recs talk bullshit and deny everything.
I dont know how bad things are in QLD but in NSW the black market trade is massive.
One small town down in NSW which I will not name but I can name no less than 20 recs who either fish for a living or fish to supplement their dole payments.
Now with that being said I can also state that the commercial industry there would black market more seafood than all of those recs combined.
I also know many commercial guys from other ports who sell on the black market
It's a 2 way street and both sides of the industry are as bad as each other.
Fisheries don't have the manpower to have officers hiding the the bushes of every coastal town spying on certain individuals waiting for them to hopefully slip up and catch them out.
These days they seem to be more focused on the seafood retail outlets as a hope to slowing down this illegal trade by removing their markets.

[rando]

Do you live in a cave with no contact with the outside world Rando? Supposition my bum. How about you provide evidence black marketing ISN'T happening? I had a family that lived around the corner, no names. The kids sold their crabs door-to- door in the street. Cute for twelve- fourteen year olds. As they got older the boys got apprenticeships, bought boats and knocked on the same doors with reef fish that they had caught and were "blacking". I've watched tinnies come in from the Scarborough Reef to the Queen's Beach ramp & sell their Snapper direct to the fish van pulled up beside the ramp at 7:00 am in the morning. Etc.

Below is part of an email from Bill Turner, Sunfish North Moreton chair. I appreciate Bill's honesty and quoting Bill is not to get him or me into a brawl. Bill is just telling it as it is.

Once again I have been taken out of context, I said to the newspaper guy that people could or might get to a stage where they might cheat the bag limit. Its silly to assume that if I knew of anybody doing this I wouldn't dob them in, let me assure you, I would. The trouble with illegal fishing activites is that those who do it are genuinely good at getting away with it and they don't tell anybody.


If you haven't been offered prawns for sale by a castnetter you obviously don't live in SE Qld. Or reefies. or this year, mud crabs. At least your kids haven't been offered drugs- because that would be supposition. I reckon you should have another read of Samson's post & give him credit for speaking honestly. There are bad apples in every tree. We should all be vigorously weeding them out of our own patch for the benefit of all. But don't pretend Rando that all the bad guys live in the other house. Comments like this lack credibility.

Yes CI i live in SE QLD and no I have not been offered prawns from a cast-netter or reefies for that matter.And no I dont live in a cave.
I am not pretending the bad guys live in the other house.
I in fact asked the community do they have 1st hand knowledge of commercial activity by recs.
Just because I haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't happen,,,, but if it is happening ,,, someone must see it, or know it.
So far no -one has said they know of this happening.... except you.
Now If I saw this happening I would have reported it, but you seem to have knowledge of the perpetrators but have not said you have done anything about it.
Again I am simply pointing out a fact of law,,, you must have hard evidence,,,, otherwise it is supposition

[rando]

Sorry guys I did not intend to hijack this post. It should stay on subject,,,, snapper management or lack thereof.


apologies
rando

[samson]

rando i don't think i've ever seen a post from you thats ever had anything to do with not bagging pros,and i don't suppose anything if you want rego numbers of recs that do it i'm sure i can arrange it but this does jack shit what are you gonna do nothing thats what,i've seen a local fish shop at palm beach take fish for years and fisheries sorted that out years ago, but recs taking fish to fish shops isn't the main problem as most shops know better, its selling them privately that is and near impossible to police but most recs do it,i visually see this a lot if you dispute that i guess thats you porrogitive but if your not seeing it i can only assume you must get sea sick or something and are only a landbased fisherman because this is so common its ridiculous.
Just a side note when you say commercial activity by recs do you not think small quantities sold are relivent because selling your rec limit when fishing daily and timed by hundreds of boats soon floods the population with fish and stuffs the industry.
If a few just hear that have given you enough evidence don't convince you that theres a rife black market trade i don't know what more can be said.

[Camhawk88]

rando i don't think i've ever seen a post from you thats ever had anything to do with not bagging pros,and i don't suppose anything if you want rego numbers of recs that do it i'm sure i can arrange it but this does jack shit what are you gonna do nothing thats what,i've seen a local fish shop at palm beach take fish for years and fisheries sorted that out years ago, but recs taking fish to fish shops isn't the main problem as most shops know better, its selling them privately that is and near impossible to police but most recs do it,i visually see this a lot if you dispute that i guess thats you porrogitive but if your not seeing it i can only assume you must get sea sick or something and are only a landbased fisherman because this is so common its ridiculous.
Just a side note when you say commercial activity by recs do you not think small quantities sold are relivent because selling your rec limit when fishing daily and timed by hundreds of boats soon floods the population with fish and stuffs the industry.
If a few just hear that have given you enough evidence don't convince you that theres a rife black market trade i don't know what more can be said.

Samson I know what your getting at and fishing these areas day in day out Im sure you would see more of this type of activity than most of us who only get out on the water one weekend a week/ month etc.
But honestly mate if you think the number of recs black marketeering is any where close to 50% - or most as you have stated here, then i really think you are delusional or over embelishing to make your point.

Look at the number of rec fishos in QLD- if most were doing it then you wouldnt have a job mate.

I would like to know how many places deal in black market seafood to support such a massive industry. If 50% of the approximate 1million fishers in QLD do this only once a year- thats a hell of a lot of joints risking their business.