Keeping old flares as Back up?

[Nomad489]

Hello Ausfish and it members, I am new to this even tho I have been signed up for years.
I would like to know if it is illegal to keep expired flares on you boat along with in date ones? I am heading off to Lady Musgrave island for 2 weeks and taking my tinny, I have been there before but with the first set of flares I bought along with epirb, v-sheet, fire ext., bucket and all required safety equipment but was wondering if it is illegal to carry the old ones on board as back up in case of an incident and need more to been seen or used.. I am interested in finding out.
Cheers Brian

[Fed]

Last time this was talked about I think it was decided that it was illegal to transport out of date explosives (Federal Law) but at the same time at least NSW MSB were advising to keep them as spares. (This may since have changed).

[Angla]

Common sense says to keep them until the next set expires, but don't pull them out during a equipment check from the authorities

Cheers
Chris

[Bros]

Out of date flares then become unauthorized pyrotechnics and come under the explosive act. You will find that in practical terms you only need to have in date flares and as another poster said only show them

[Fed]

The big question is which flares you would use first, the new ones with a wary feeling of caution or the old ones with your hand trembling & your eyes tightly shut while you're quivering below the gunnel with just your hands over the side of the boat.

[spelchek]

a wary feeling of caution ... your hand trembling & your eyes tightly shut while you're quivering below the gunnel with just your hands over the side of the boat.

That almost about sums up how you should be lighting any flare - especially the smoke ones . If you've never let one off before, I'd suggest you do so, cause you are gona gt a hell of a surprise if you need to use one in anger having never done so before. Holding on to one of those is not without it's own scare-factor. There is fizzing, siszzling melting hot shite flying everywhere - at least it seems so.


edit -> I obviously mean let one off only at a properly run VMR or Coastguard event or course in case anyone was wondering.

[johnverano]

I got checked down at coffs during the dave irvine contest and my flares where out of date by a month, the water cops told me that i could keep my old flares as back ups to the new ones. As long as i had new ones onboard it was fine.
I was not fined but cautioned

[Fed]

Thanks spelchek now you've made me even more paranoid I think I'd rather be lost a sea than burnt to death.
I've never let one off mate & I hope I never have to but if the time comes I'll remember what you said.

[onerabbit]

I remember years ago whenI lived on the farm,
one of the lads had an old parachute flare to set off during a new years eve party.

12 o clock came & up the flare went,

pity the bloody parachute didn't work,
it went straight up....and straight down...and landed in a crowd of partyers...still burning its head off

we were very lucky that no-one was hurt.

Muzz

[Nomad489]

Yeah you have me cautious too, I was only asking because the last time I was out I thought if you where in a situation drifting because the anchor rope was too short or something and couldn't anchor just drifting out to sea I had back up to been seen at night after many hours out as I dont have a radio on the tinny ( maybe another thing to think of. I have been to a coast guard display and it didn't look nor seem scary to me as I have used welders and cutters throw hot metal about like fireworks.. I think I will take them and only show the in date ones. cheers for reply to my post everyone..

[Fed]

So what will you let off first the flares or the hand grenades?

[Obi _ Wan]

This one that never seems to go away.

A while ago in response to another thread, i contacted MSQ and recieved the following information which is after the questions i sent to MSQ.

Cheers,
John.




Hi Andy, I trawled through the regs again and still could not find an answer so i sent MSQ an email, hopefully as following hhere under.



Good Afternoon,


I have a question about flares, Ihave asked a lot of people and received several different answers and when $200is the outcome if the wrong advice is followed it is not good, so your rulingwill be welcomed.

1.Flares carry a date stamp which is shown as say----August 2011 ??? Which partof August do the flares become out of date, is it the beginning or the end ofAugust???? I had a boating and Fisheries Patrol Officer tell me that it is theend of August but I have heard of others who have been fined by the WaterPolice for having flares that carried the stamp date of, say June and they werefined in the middle of June, there must be a ruling on this, otherwise it isjust revenue raising.
2. I have also heard that it is okayto carry the set of flares that are carrying the date stamp which proceeds thecurrent in date set of flares as a backup/ additional flares for use in anemergency and is a good practise. Your page on flares says that only flareswithin the manufacturers expiry date can be considered as part of safetyequipment? Does that mean if I have a set of flares that are within themanufactures expiry range and I have an extra set of flares that are dated asthe proceeding set, I would be fined? For having out of date flares on board?

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
Regards,
John.

This morning i recieved an answer from MSQ as following, this should now clear up all questions we have regarding flares.

Morning John,

Thank you for enquiryin regards to carriage of flares. The expiry dates which are applied to theflares, carry the validity of the month of expiry. So as per the Boating andFisheries officer has advised he is correct. In September the flares datedexpiry for August 2011 would then be classed as expired not during the month ofAugust.

As for carriage ofexpired flares there is no requirement under the Transport Operations(Marine Safety) Act or Regulation that refers to this. Although it is anoffence with an appropriate fine, under the Mines Energy and Explosives actfor the carriage of expired explosives. Any carriage of expired safetyequipment in a vessel should be kept well away from the containment area forthe in date safety equipment.

Please feel free tocontact me directly in regards to this.

Kind regards,


I have removed the name of the Officer who sent answers to my questions, however if you need the chaps name please PM me.


Cheers,
John.

[spelchek]

Thanks spelchek now you've made me even more paranoid I think I'd rather be lost a sea than burnt to death.
I've never let one off mate & I hope I never have to but if the time comes I'll remember what you said.

Mate I reckon you'd make that decision pretty easy once you can;t see land anymore But they are, in my opinon, scarey peices of kit. Put it this way - the VMR course I attneded where we set them off, they had us in leather welding gloves. At the very least, wrap something damp (like a towel or, in that situation probably your undies ) around your hand/forearm that you're holding the flare with. Obviously they aren't gonna be spraying napalm in a 20m area, but they are a very high intensity flame and they do spit and sizzle.

[dnej]

I tried in vain to organise a field day so out of date flares could be used to give the boatie some experience. The answer was a big no, to using out of date flares. They had to ones that were not expired.
So it didnt get off the ground
David

[murf]

didn't someone find out that the Mines Energy and Explosives act allows them to be 5 years old even though they are only allowed 3 years in the boating world??

I always carry the well kept OOD ones

and I would use the in date ones first, the OOD ones would be a last resort

be very aware of the wind direction when setting flares off

cheers Murf