Marine defects vs initial cost

[Dignity]

I have realised over the years reading this forum that there seems to be more problems with defects in the marine industry than say the vehicle industry. Now I have just purchased a new Yammie 150 hp 4 stroke which has caused me some teething issues e.g. pod filling up with water, another story. But when I was looking around and trying to get prices it was "well the motor is $x, the fitting is $y etc. but when I got down to having an argy bargy because I had settled on a brand and HP it was a little different.

But I recall that I had almost lost it with 1 dealer who persisted in pushing pricing the separate items that I asked how much if I wanted the seats in Leather and even though I didn't smoke could I have an ashtray. I think he was confused until I said I can buy a car with adjustable seats, stereo etc for less than I was paying for the motor. He waffled on abut various things but I digress. I know the industry doen't sell as many O/B's as cars but their research is not as complicated as vehicles as they don't have to worry about designing new bodies, seats, windows and windscreens and supplying all the ancillaries etc. The financial crisis that is assaying the US at the moment and will hit home to us has seen prices at much lower end of the spectrum.

Once again I have digressed, but the red wine does taste good and there is not much left in the bottle, but on a percentage basis boats, motors and trailers seem to have more issues than vehicles, maybe the stats will prove me wrong. How is it that we put up with it, I know that forums such as this have an impact to which many members can attest having their problems resolved, but how else do we do it, is there a marine ombudsmen we can go to. Maybe there should be one. Are we being sucker punched because of that dirty word "marine".

[Feral]

The marine industry is still at a very amatuerish level compared to the high speed automated production lines of the car industry.
Still a lot of manual work, still relies heavily on tradesmen, not a high level of turn over, still has not realised the power of the internet and fishing forums etc (in regards to how easily reputation can be lost as the word of dodgy work spreads like wild fire!).

The industry is at the cusp, is it going to become "british leyland" or is it going to become "toyota"? I suppose we will see over the next 10 to 25 years.

[nigelr]

Not sure what you mean by 'marine industry' Dignity but I'm enjoying the discussion.
Are you talking about manufacturers, suppliers, service providers, electronics, motors, hulls....
Feral what do you mean by 'become British Leyland or Toyota'?
A good contrast IMO is between the US experience and our own here in Aus.
Is the game here controlled by a comparatively small number of powerful players?
Are our experiences dominated by the business savvy of proprietors?
Definitely an interesting discussion!

[finga]

We're been sucker punched.
There are a few big players in the marine industry and they have the market sewn up. And they know it.
But the internet is levelling the field a smidge.

Second part to the problem is the high level of unskilled labour in the boating industry.
Not every one is up to the high standards of ability, knowledge and the sense of pride that Gary (Spaniard King) and builders such as Origin put into their work.
A lot are there purely to make a buck (or try to).
A lot of new trailers is a prime example of the want to make as much profit as possible.
How many people are now using bearings they don't want to (ie the parallel bearings) and how many people have had to change bolts etc within 6 months of buying a new trailer??
How many people have paid a deposit on a new boat and the business goes broke and their money is gone?
How many people have things done to their boats and they leak?? (see initial post)
How many people have electronics and they don't work to expectations or specifications??
The list is near endless.

[lethal098]

Spend some time in the motor industry and you see some similarities, You just dont read about them.

Give me a boat anyday.

Cheers Lee

[finga]

Spend some time in the motor industry and you see some similarities, You just dont read about them.

Give me a boat anyday.

Cheers Lee

Your not wrong there.
The AU$ has increased well over 20% in value on the greenback and has that been reflected in car or parts pricing?

The fuel industry is still the biggest thief imaginable though

[Thunderace2]

maybe because the consequences of a boat breaking down is a lot higher than a car having issues maybe part of the issue

[Dignity]

The marine industry is still at a very amatuerish level compared to the high speed automated production lines of the car industry.
Still a lot of manual work, still relies heavily on tradesmen, not a high level of turn over, still has not realised the power of the internet and fishing forums etc (in regards to how easily reputation can be lost as the word of dodgy work spreads like wild fire!).

The industry is at the cusp, is it going to become "british leyland" or is it going to become "toyota"? I suppose we will see over the next 10 to 25 years.

Feral, I was thinking more along the lines of Boat, motor, trailer. But you do raise another interesting question as to why marine GPS for example is so expensive, I can buy a 7 inch vehicular GPS for half the price of a 7 inch marine GPS and I still have to buy the map as well, at least in the USA you get the map as part of the deal. I am sure we are sucker punched.

[Dignity]

Not sure what you mean by 'marine industry' Dignity but I'm enjoying the discussion.
Are you talking about manufacturers, suppliers, service providers, electronics, motors, hulls....
Feral what do you mean by 'become British Leyland or Toyota'?
A good contrast IMO is between the US experience and our own here in Aus.
Is the game here controlled by a comparatively small number of powerful players?
Are our experiences dominated by the business savvy of proprietors?
Definitely an interesting discussion!

nigelr, I was initially referring to boat, motor trailer but have now expanded it as in my response to Feral to include electronics. From what I have been told is that the Australian scene is so small in the eyes of the overseas conglomerats that they don't see the need to be competitve and are almost in collusion with each other to keep the prices high.

[finga]

Collusion...how can there be any collusion??
We have the ACCC to stop collusion.





Oh crap on a cracker...I just had to pull myself back up off the floor. I just fell off my chair laughing at myself

[TopBhoy]

If we have competition for our health sector then we deserve greater competition in our consumer purchasing. Is it collusion or simply that most major brands have assigned 'exclusive distribution' rights to a single distributor and the distributor then can wield excessive influence? Companies dealing with a distributor cannot afford to fall foul of them otherwise warranty and support is denied. It becomes that the distributor sets the price and not the market and customer choice is restricted. Exclusive distribution rights should be illegal in my opinion - it doesn't help the public or encourage innovation.

[Dignity]

Finga, the Australian Comedy Comic Club, I don't see the connection

[oldboot]

The bottom line is that the governments care very little about the recreational marine market, because it does not represent a significant amount of the population or a particular amount of risk.

It is the lack of regulation that is both good and bad......there are almost no enforceable standards for anything in the recreational marine industry, no requirements for occupational licencing and almost non existant engineering oversight.

If I want to drive a 12 tonne 50 foot cruser, I can do so on the same licence needed to drive a 12 foot tinny with a 10Hp on the back, (something equavelent to a postie bike) and the licence is easy enough to get.

If I want to drive a 12 tonne motor vehicle, I must have held some sort of drivers licence for at least 2 years and then I need to pass a 70 minute driving test with a government inspector AND make no more than 8 minor mistakes.
OH..and I have a zero blood alcahol requiement, and a whole pile of other restrictions.

If I want to a whole list of very minor modifications to a road vehicle, I need to get an engineering certificate and go cap in hand to main roads for approval.
BUT I can chop the whole stern out of a boat and graft a pod onto it ( a major structural and functional modification in any terms) and unless I want to increase the engine power, I have no obligation to tell anyone.

There is no presale seaworthyness inspection for recreational boats.

Most boats are not even manufactured as a complete item by one manufacturer, this would be unheard of on motor vehicles

Fellas it is a free for all...yeh its good and its bad.

And of course the majority of boat owners are ignorant about almost every aspect of boating.

So it is an industry ripe for shonks and exploiters.

If you think competition would solve anything......you are kidding...just look at the telecommunications business......the whole thing has decended into some of the worst service and customer satisfaction of any industry sector since competiton was introduced.

Of course we always know about..... "M" words and how they inflate the price of anything with an "M" word attached...marine, medical, military.

As I say its good and its bad.
This lack of regulation allows us a certain level of freedom.

But those who are, lazy, poorly informed or just stupid, particularly those with plenty of money to thow away, will come off very badly in a free-for-all.

On the other hand those of us who are lean, mean, a little canny, can do for ourselves and don't need the newest and biggest, like vultures can do very well under the current system.

cheers

[mal555]

With the nations hunger for all things cheap and Chinese, it will be interesting to see how their marine products stand the test of time.

[Steeler]

No such thing as price collusion its all orderly marketing, just ask anyone involved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.