Shimano downgrading their tackle

[Tangles]

Totally agree about the Daiwa service ...... I was just told it would take around 4-6 weeks to get my certate looked at.
The trouble is (now) that Daiwa faces little competition ..... it will probably get worst.
Next time you are in a decent tackle store , just wander around and look at the latest shimano offerings ....... cheap bling on the rods & the finish of the reels is looking cheap and boring - very disappointing



Chris

Nagg is that one of the latest Certates? as 6 weeks is a long time

[NAGG]

Nagg is that one of the latest Certates? as 6 weeks is a long time

no mate it is the older model ( original) - I wouldn't buy a new one with the composite rotor (too much flex under load)

chris

[Brent_P]

The CI4 Thunnus falls short of its predecessor.

How does the Thunnus CI4 fall short of the previous Thunnus? I own the old aluminum 6000F and the new 4000 and 8000 CI4 Thunnus, and I much prefer the new models. Although the aluminum 6000F was a good reel (after I upgraded the handle and the knob to something I could actually grip when it was wet, and changed the thin felt washers to carbontex so I could get more than 3kg of drag), the 6000F weighs a ton for such a small-spooled reel, which meant I couldn't match it to a light carbon rod without the outfit feeling unbalanced. The new Thunnus's have a smooth carbontex-like, ball-bearing drag system, a power-knob handle, a 'propulsion' spool lip (which Daiwa have since copied), extra-hard 'paladin' gears, and are also extremely smooth to wind - my 4000 is smoother, in my opinion, than my Stella 4000FD. The CI4 carbon fibre material seems quite rigid to me - I felt no flex, even on the small 4000, while fighting fish, not that I've used heavy drag on them, like I would for jigging or livebaiting for kingfish. Line lay is good and flat - some people were apparently concerned that the new Thunnus doesn't have a worm gear oscillation system, like the old one - but neither do Daiwa's, right up to the $1500 Saltiga Dogfight (except for some surfcasting models).

I also own a Stella 5000SW. The Stella SW (released in 2008) is generally considered to be a vast improvement on the previous model Stella FA.

Brent.

[nathank]

It seems that you guys have noticed it too .. I have no dramas with tackle being built to a price point to service a certain part of the market ( we need kids , entry , mid & high end tackle) - What I'm disappointed with is that Shimano are cheapening up their range & it makes it more difficult to buy based on performance / quality.
Take for instance the Starlo Stix pro range - 5 years ago I rated these the best spin rod you could buy under $300 ..... A great blank , good fuji graphite winch fitting & they had fuji TiSiC guides - all for about $170. Today they come with a down graded injection moulded plastic winch (fuji) & some stainless steel unknown abomination of a guide - the blank still is ok.

Chris

Agreed Nagg.. i wouldnt have thought of using anything but shimano a few years back... now my main spin outfit consists of a fin nor rod and daiwa reel.. the graphite rods that fin nor produce are unbelievable value.

[NAGG]

How does the Thunnus CI4 fall short of the previous Thunnus? I own the old aluminum 6000F and the new 4000 and 8000 CI4 Thunnus, and I much prefer the new models. Although the aluminum 6000F was a good reel (after I upgraded the handle and the knob to something I could actually grip when it was wet, and changed the thin felt washers to carbontex so I could get more than 3kg of drag), the 6000F weighs a ton for such a small-spooled reel, which meant I couldn't match it to a light carbon rod without the outfit feeling unbalanced. The new Thunnus's have a smooth carbontex-like drag system, a power-knob handle, a 'propulsion' spool lip (which Daiwa have since copied), extra-hard 'paladin' gears, and are also extremely smooth to wind - my 4000 is smoother, in my opinion, than my Stella 4000FD. The CI4 carbon fibre material seems quite rigid to me - I felt no flex, even on the small 4000, while fighting fish, not that I've used heavy drag on them, like I would for jigging or livebaiting for kingfish. Line lay is good and flat - some people were apparently concerned that the new Thunnus doesn't have a worm gear oscillation system, like the old one - but neither do Daiwa's, right up to the $1500 Saltiga Dogfight (except for some surfcasting models).

I also own a Stella 5000SW. The Stella SW (released in 2008) is generally considered to be a vast improvement on the previous model Stella FA.

Brent.

I cant comment on the offshore models ...... no interest !
But I do already know of a CI4 Thunnus (4000) that has gone to shite ...... warpage under load! ....... The originals are better!
The Stella Sw is a good reel ...... but the lighter FE is a downgrade on the earlier models

Chris

[NAGG]

Agreed Nagg.. i wouldnt have thought of using anything but shimano a few years back... now my main spin outfit consists of a fin nor rod and daiwa reel.. the graphite rods that fin nor produce are unbelievable value.

Nath ... In my mind , the change is dramatic ........ a real downgrade

Chris

[Brent_P]

But I do already know of a CI4 Thunnus (4000) that has gone to shite

How????? And, more importantly, is the shite-ness preventable?????

The Thunnus CI4 4000 is the only really good baitrunner in that size I've ever owned (the 3500B Baitrunner is much bigger and heavier), and I've tried and owned a lot in the last 15 years. I'd hate to see it go to crap.

So will there ever be a really high-end baitrunner? A Stella Baitrunner, maybe? A Saltiga Bite 'N' Run? Probably not, I s'pose.

Brent.

[shanejohnson]

The current stella fe a downgrade on previous models, you must be an expert that has owned both. A big call indeed. Looks are not everything. I will stick with my stellas.

[Sevric]

I agree with Nagg that there has been a general decline in quality of Shimano gear in the mid ranges of reels and noticeably so on their rod range. However i do not agree that their top of the range Reels have been compromised. I own both the FB and FE Stella in various sizes as well as an SW 5000 and i personally think they are as good as anything i have ever used. Daiwa make fine equipment but for me it is the after sales service that i find more than disappointing. As Nagg is finding out the extended delay for repair or replacement parts leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. I had 7 Certates of the older model as well as a Saltiga and a Saltiga Blast. All but one of the Certates i have sold via this sites classifieds as i tired of always seeming to have one in bits waiting for simple parts or in at the local repair shop where they were waiting for bits to arrive from Japan. In my opinion the top ranges of both companies are good gear but the mid range stuff is on the decline as is service and the availability of parts to keep them in top order.

[NAGG]

How a reel is finished off is part of the package - Do you really feel that the FE is finished off as well as say the FD or FB ?
I had a fish of a 2500 FE & FB ..... side by side - personally I felt that the FB felt & looked the better reel - but its only my opinion

btw - dont get me wrong..... It's still a bloody nice reel & I would love to own one ...... but if I was paying close to $900 - I would be buying an Exist

Chris

[NAGG]

How????? And, more importantly, is the shite-ness preventable?????

The Thunnus CI4 4000 is the only really good baitrunner in that size I've ever owned (the 3500B Baitrunner is much bigger and heavier), and I've tried and owned a lot in the last 15 years. I'd hate to see it go to crap.

So will there ever be a really high-end baitrunner? A Stella Baitrunner, maybe? A Saltiga Bite 'N' Run? Probably not, I s'pose.

Brent.

Distortion! (rotor) -
The original Thunnus was a solid piece of kit
As for the new baitrunners ....... are they as good as the originals ? ( people I have asked ..... dont think so ) - I have not tried them

Chris

[shanejohnson]

I think you mean fd not fb. The external coatings on the new fe are apparently much superior to previous model stellas, similiar to SW. Also the alighnment of the main gear to the pinion gear(X ship) supposibly gives smoother greater winding power. I agree the fe is not the best looking stella made mate. Shano.

[Sevric]

For me the cosmetics do not mean much but yes the previous model Stella spool looked better but that is all. I have never used an Exist but i would feel confident that the drag of the Stella would win hands down along with the general construction of the reel. I think more than anything that turned me on to purchase the Stella range was the low inertia it to the drag to start to operate. Pulling the drag apart it is obviously well constructed with a substantial metal washer that to me seems to be the backbone of the whole inertia / smoothness thing. After having had doctored all of the Daiwa drags i had to perform smoothly it was indeed a pleasure to see what makes it work as well as it does and superior to any of the Daiwa products i had used over the years. The Exist and Branzinos etc may have different drag set ups, they would need to have to be compared to a Stella.
All of this gets away from the original gist of the thread. Mid range gear of the Shimano range has definitely suffered in recent times as they concentrate on Bling rather than functional practicality and the natural advantages that would bring to the reel or the rod.

[the gecko]

Good thread guys, keep it going. The rest of us are learning about reels we intend to buy.

Ive been looking at the second hand stellas from japan, but Ive decided to carbontex drag my sustain fe instead. Ive repaired the sustain twice, with great service from tackleworld who seem well trained in shimano reels.

Gotta agree on the rods nagg. I love the blank on my starlo stix midspins, but the guides have rusted and been replaced, and the reel seats need tightening several times a sessions. I own both the old and new version of the rod. I will be looking for guides that last next time, and basing my purchase on that.

cheers
Andrew

[NAGG]

Good thread guys, keep it going. The rest of us are learning about reels we intend to buy.

Ive been looking at the second hand stellas from japan, but Ive decided to carbontex drag my sustain fe instead. Ive repaired the sustain twice, with great service from tackleworld who seem well trained in shimano reels.

Gotta agree on the rods nagg. I love the blank on my starlo stix midspins, but the guides have rusted and been replaced, and the reel seats need tightening several times a sessions. I own both the old and new version of the rod. I will be looking for guides that last next time, and basing my purchase on that.

cheers
Andrew

Hi Andrew ..... I had an original Litespin & was blown away by just how good it was ....... sadly I decapited it about a month later with the garage door - along with another couple of rods . When I went to buy another , my local dealer had sold out & so I ended up with a couple of T Curves ...... which I have used over the last 4 years or so.
When thre second version of the light spin came out it had stainless Fuji SiCs & now the current one has really been downgraded with a cheap reel seat & those guides . I bought a maxspin ( it was cheap) as a mates rod ....... & I'm very tempted to rip those horrid guides off and replace them with some decent Sic fujis - I reckon the blank warrants the expense as it would make a fine jewie or barra frog rod.

chris