ETEC....Do I need my head read?

[Madshagger]

Im still lost how your etec actually uses less fuel then what you did when you had the four stroke . Every owner i know who has had an 4 stroke then goes to an etec or vise versa always say the fuel consumption is better in the 4 stroke..... Maybe yours is a one off . As for serviceing I use an ORTHERISED Honda mobile mechanic and the service cost bye the sounds of it must be half of what you were getting charged and im 100% under warranty. Its strange as when you talk to alot of GOOD motor mechanics most of them say etec's come in there more then any other engine. I am just curious.... did you not do ANY serviceing for 3 years or 300 hours running your etec??? Seriously lets think about this for one second, if Etecs (2 strokes) were the most reliable engine to have why is it With all the Techknowledgy around the world no car is run like a 2 stroke?

I tend to drive my rig hard and also ski behind it regularly, towing tubes etc. My theory is that as it makes more HP and Torque lower in the rev range (being a two stroke) I don't have to ring its neck to make it deliver HP, therefore it uses less fuel. I am not saying in every appication they will use less fuel, it just happens to use less in mine. I dare say that the commercial guys who are using them and are pushing big loads would recieve the same benefits. Talking to one of the water taxi skippers they are saving 1-2 liters an hour. The boat is working hard carrying up to 12 people. They say with the ETEC that it can plane a lot quicker and can carry a bigger load than what they had before, more torque and hp early in the rev range will do that for you.

I maintained my engine over the three year period, greased usual points, kept it clean, flushed it and sprayed some stuff under the cowl but that was it. But I made sure that the setup was spot on. Engine height set up for how i use it, mainly trying to go fast and propped to spin close to 6000rpm when one up and half a tank of fuel so that when it is loaded it is sitting around 5500rpm. I spoke to one of the service techs from BRP in Sydney to confirm this. This is also better for my fuel consumption apparently as the engine is not loaded all of the time. The higher the load due to bad set up, the more fuel it tips in I have been told... makes sense.

Noel's link about cars makes perfect sense. Do you really think that the major car companies in the current economic climate are going to reinvest Millions into looking at a new technology when they have already tipped in billions trying to develop a known technology that they already sold to billions of consumers world wide and convinced them in the process that that it is the right technology for that sector? They are going Electric now. Have a read of Noel's thread.

At the end of the day, there is not a bad engine out there. You just have to make an informed decision about which one suits your application the best. I have owned Yamaha's both in two and four stroke, Mercs, Suzuki's and have driven the rest. The ETEC suits my application the best.

I am just standing up for all the people that own them or are considering change (No Chicken tonight, which is where this all started) and cop a flogging from everyone who has heard a bad story.

Stick with your Honda, it might last 5000hrs but would not pull a fat kid off a cup cake

Cheers

Madshagger

[Jabba_]

[QUOTE=dan12345;1296023]

A injector on a 2008 and on cost $250 plus 1 hr labour.
On a pre 2008 Etec the injector is $300 plus labour.

How did you get $800.[/QUOTE
easy jabba take the normal price double it then times by the amount u wish to slag off e-tecs +$100 come out with an unrealistic price then take on 10% for gst an finally pump it up just a tad more then bobs your uncle you have the internet forum injector price

Now thats f____en hilarious.... And very true, over at Fishnet I was told it cost $1000 to change 1 injector.. What a crock

[finga]

Bloody hell.
After reading all this I'm now convinced to get a steam boat.
These petrol motors are just too.....well......controversial.

[cormorant]

Bloody hell.
After reading all this I'm now convinced to get a steam boat.
These petrol motors are just too.....well......controversial.

Hey finga - what oil ya gonna use and you going for a tripple expansion. Ya know those old technology ones use too much water and fuel oil. Gunna use one with a new fangled spinny ( near computerised) govener or keep ya hand on the valve an do it manually.


Best steam boat ever is at the local Korean restruant and ya can't ever tell me different!!

[finga]

Hey finga - what oil ya gonna use and you going for a tripple expansion. Ya know those old technology ones use too much water and fuel oil. Gunna use one with a new fangled spinny ( near computerised) govener or keep ya hand on the valve an do it manually.


Best steam boat ever is at the local Korean restruant and ya can't ever tell me different!!

Mate, the dam is full of freshwater. All I need is a pipe to the outside of the boat and no oil burned. That would be environmentally irresponsible. I'll burn trees instead
The sad thing was I was actually considering a steam boat. Jarrah dude found one down his way but it was on a glass hull not a timber one. If it was timber I could quite be in real trouble with the cook about now.

And yep, have to agree about the Koreran steam boat....no doubts about that at all.

But back to the Etec's. How can one tyoe of motor cause so much heated debate?
If they were that bad I would have thought they'd be off the market...just like Holden Camira's are.

[cormorant]

But back to the Etec's. How can one tyoe of motor cause so much heated debate?
If they were that bad I would have thought they'd be off the market...just like Holden Camira's are.

A lot of history
Company had huge market share- every boater at some stage had a old johno 2 stroke . They lasted even with pretty average mantainance but eventually with age and lack of maintainance they failed. So everyone owned a failed Johno and a expensive rebuild. Oil injection was blamed for about 1000 times more failures as it was a easy cop out for mechanics and backyarders who didn't know how to tune , adjust and maintain a outboard properly. Very few properly maintained old 2 strokes failed compared to what everyone thinks. Cooling faults and no warnig buzzers etc . Technology has moved on for the better.
Pushed for enviro controls - people hated them for that
Company went broke same time as Fitch technology was introduced only after a few years
They had a unfixed lemon in the production line and only 2 models in a line up of 12 odd others that didn't have issues. All manufaturers have had this "lemon" and some have had several in a row but the company failing at teh same time was just fodder for everyone rather than a company trading through.
Lemon in training dealers
Lemon in quality control of dealers
Consumers didn't undestand product or technology
Consumer didn't take dealer advise on correct oils and services
They priced oil at the going rate of gold
Backyarders and mobile mechanics couldn't access software so they could't diagnose or service them and made no money so just bad mouthed them.
They lost a lot of customers forever by not honouring warranty when they went belly up - will never forgive and some made it a life mission to at every point take em down a peg
They lost a lot of dealers by leaving them in the lurch- same as above
Lost a lot of disgruntled employees who were owed.
Point of difference- enviro and 4 stroke so copped flack when they had lower than most every 4 stroke
That advertising campain - will have to go down in history - some say great - I say terrible - did themselves no favours
All other outboard companies targeted them as they were the odd one out technology wise and coming back into market - easy target
Dealers have been pissed with manufacturer not generating them enough work and margins. Dealers aren't turning over enough and dealer areas are conslidated. Downturn in global business has't helped demand for outboards

Everyone has a favourite - the one they own that is currently working. They all believe they made the right decision and manufacturers are spending millions on creating brand loyalty to make em feel Ok about their decision even if they are being taken to the cleaners - they feel good about it. Hmmm human nature

The list goes on but that is a start

Basically regardless of if the product is good or bad they allowed the boating community to become polarised in opinion and divided it along the lines of 2st and 4 st direct injection etc

I comment when I see real crap and misinformation being toted around as facts. That is why I started the engine failure thread again. Seems not many failures of any brand.

The benefit of a forum should be that no brand can hide their failing motors and palm customers off like used to happen. Same with real life service costs - be nice if everyone put up real service costs as some dealers are having a lend of clients and manufacturers parts prices outside warranty need a good looking into.



Edit Have been reminded of another couple

They started to agressvely sponser boats and events and so on treading on turf of other manufacturers
They extended warranties length to get market share and give people piece of mind
They started back into the tender market for commercial supply
Lots of reasons to talk em down

[business class]

I tend to drive my rig hard and also ski behind it regularly, towing tubes etc. My theory is that as it makes more HP and Torque lower in the rev range (being a two stroke) I don't have to ring its neck to make it deliver HP, therefore it uses less fuel. I am not saying in every appication they will use less fuel, it just happens to use less in mine. I dare say that the commercial guys who are using them and are pushing big loads would recieve the same benefits. Talking to one of the water taxi skippers they are saving 1-2 liters an hour. The boat is working hard carrying up to 12 people. They say with the ETEC that it can plane a lot quicker and can carry a bigger load than what they had before, more torque and hp early in the rev range will do that for you.

I maintained my engine over the three year period, greased usual points, kept it clean, flushed it and sprayed some stuff under the cowl but that was it. But I made sure that the setup was spot on. Engine height set up for how i use it, mainly trying to go fast and propped to spin close to 6000rpm when one up and half a tank of fuel so that when it is loaded it is sitting around 5500rpm. I spoke to one of the service techs from BRP in Sydney to confirm this. This is also better for my fuel consumption apparently as the engine is not loaded all of the time. The higher the load due to bad set up, the more fuel it tips in I have been told... makes sense.

Noel's link about cars makes perfect sense. Do you really think that the major car companies in the current economic climate are going to reinvest Millions into looking at a new technology when they have already tipped in billions trying to develop a known technology that they already sold to billions of consumers world wide and convinced them in the process that that it is the right technology for that sector? They are going Electric now. Have a read of Noel's thread.

At the end of the day, there is not a bad engine out there. You just have to make an informed decision about which one suits your application the best. I have owned Yamaha's both in two and four stroke, Mercs, Suzuki's and have driven the rest. The ETEC suits my application the best.

I am just standing up for all the people that own them or are considering change (No Chicken tonight, which is where this all started) and cop a flogging from everyone who has heard a bad story.

Stick with your Honda, it might last 5000hrs but would not pull a fat kid off a cup cake

Cheers

Madshagger

So your main use for your set up is skiing? get into an ocean where your constantly through the rev range and watch the fuel consumption change, carrying weight in a bay as a water taxi does is pointless to a fuel consumtion arguement as who is gonna carry 4 or 5 people (which a traller boat can do) from spot to spot If i was looking at a new engine i would want to know whats the difference in an open ocean (if thats where i fished) what the fuel is. Then your comment is you dare say commercial guys recieve the same benifit so you dont even know any commercial guys using these . Since ive Fished with a commercial guy running an etec who carrys plenty of weight, then switched to a honda his outcome is the HONDA is better on fuel bye at least $50 dollars a day TROLLING in an open ocean compared to the etec, Hassel free as he doesnt have to worry about oil, has a mobile mechanic service his engine at his house (bonus) which also saves him money as his boat is not at a dealer for a few days being worked on and so far the serviceing cost goes has the Honda in front in costs in the overall picture. Now the etec had more power (not Much) but still more down low and he says the Honda is ugly compared to it hahaha. Now a day out wide heavy tackle Similar weight boat both running same size engine one etec one 4 stroke, leave same time, fish same grounds and return the same time. Fuel jetty reads 4 stroke takes 140ltrs and 2 stroke takes 200ltrs . Now do those figures over a year chasen billies . You are correct when you say every engine will suit everyones different uses, tho you will find take your boat into an ocean and watch things change.

As for noels thread thats a very interesting read, and i can see where there coming from, But in reality what manufacturer would go to a 2 stroke car??? seriously there going better so there looking at electric not 2 stroke which means they want to go forwards not backwards

And when your sitting there madshagger with your etec which you have just replaced cause your last one died, and breakdown AGAIN call me on the VHF and ill drive my Honda with its 5000hrs over to you, which is STILL RUNNING from day dot and come tow you in

[business class]

[QUOTE=Jabba_;1296050]

Now thats f____en hilarious.... And very true, over at Fishnet I was told it cost $1000 to change 1 injector.. What a crock

Heres one for you mate, Just called 3 Etec dealerships and the cost of an injector for a 2010 model 150hp is $800-1000 one said $800 plus GST and the other said $660 including GST and thats just a random ringing and asking as i know no one in the etec game. So when you say thats a crock maybe these people just ring a few dealers and get the best price as i did.

[Noelm]

so then, from all this it would seem there is only one engine that is any good, and that is a Honda, because Business class told us so, all the others will not catch fish, tow a skier, carry passengers, use too much fuel, will need oil and to make matters worse, may blow up at any moment, wonder where I can buy a good 90HP electric outboard?

[Pazz01]

Noel, Get a paddle mate, because if your up sh*ts creek with any one of these new outboards your in trouble. Don't worry about being out in the open ocean, you won't make it.

[business class]

so then, from all this it would seem there is only one engine that is any good, and that is a Honda, because Business class told us so, all the others will not catch fish, tow a skier, carry passengers, use too much fuel, will need oil and to make matters worse, may blow up at any moment, wonder where I can buy a good 90HP electric outboard?

I labeled what i had and what he had, ive also had a Suzuki and was an awesome engine. So much for you not reading these threads Noel hey. Im not saying honda is the only 4 stroke to get bye any means im saying the difference between 2 stroke and 4 stroke in an open ocean. If 2 strokes are so good noel why you go suzuki 4 stroke??? please ya bat for both teams yet u have a 4 stroke ya kidding me arent ya.

[Jarrah Jack]

Cost of 150 Etec injector from boats.net is 250 US, postage will add little once the conversion is done. Any dealer charging anything like 800 should be asked to wait a week or so and have the part given to them by a grinning customer. Same applies to most parts from all motors.

[Noelm]

nuh, not kidding at all, my choice was made for a variety of reasons, and not biased towards 4 or 2 stroke, in fact the choice was almost a carby 2 stroke, what I am saying is, they are all good, just because you own a Honda 4 stoke, does not make every other engine on the market a dud! (especially an e-tec) Honda make a fine engine, and I looked at them too, but they were heavy for the HP I wanted, so I did not go that way, I dont for one minute think my Suzukis are the best engine ever, but they are good, and indeed a tad better than I expected, and when I did the research, they fitted my plans the best, I dont "bat" for any team, I just see that both operating principals have their pros and cons, the potential owner weighs up those pros and cons and comes up with their choice (well they should), whether another brand owner agrees or not is irrelavent, but there is no need to forever drag out tired old arguments to prove a 4 stroke, and e-tec or anything else is the best.

[business class]

nuh, not kidding at all, my choice was made for a variety of reasons, and not biased towards 4 or 2 stroke, in fact the choice was almost a carby 2 stroke, what I am saying is, they are all good, just because you own a Honda 4 stoke, does not make every other engine on the market a dud! (especially an e-tec) Honda make a fine engine, and I looked at them too, but they were heavy for the HP I wanted, so I did not go that way, I dont for one minute think my Suzukis are the best engine ever, but they are good, and indeed a tad better than I expected, and when I did the research, they fitted my plans the best, I dont "bat" for any team, I just see that both operating principals have their pros and cons, the potential owner weighs up those pros and cons and comes up with their choice (well they should), whether another brand owner agrees or not is irrelavent, but there is no need to forever drag out tired old arguments to prove a 4 stroke, and e-tec or anything else is the best.

I hear what your saying with the 2 stroke 4 stroke thread always dragged out. You seem to have been on here for many years and by the sound of it with alot of your posts you have a good insite to the marine game, you say u nearlly went carbi 2 stroke yet you didnt, why? Im just stating from experence (like which you are when you post and when it comes to the fuel usage debate) its that simple. I am very impressed with my 225 and i was very impressed with the 140 suzuki and i wouldnt go back to a 2 stroke as they suit what i do. I never said go honda only honda and i wouldnt as there are other 4 strokes out there which will suit other people and are probably as good if not better for what they do.

[Noelm]

fuel use does not have a big bearing on my boating/fishing, some of the places I fish are less than a k or two from the harbour, so that was never an issue (there are days when we travel to the shelf though as well), I had already decided on 90HP, so that bit was settled, all I had to do was work out which motor I was going to buy, weight was the biggest factor, and the reason I went Suzuki, they were/are the lightest 4 stroke 90HP on the market, only a couple of motors are lighter (both being carby 2 strokes) the Yamaha was passed in (even though it was my first choice) simply because it was way too expensive, and all the dealers within a reasonable distance of me were almost to the dollar, the same price (colusion maybe?) that left Mercury carby 2 stroke, and the Suzukis (I had ruled out the Tohatsu for a couple of reasons) after a bit of to and fro from the dealers, the deal on the Suzukis was way too good to pass up, it had nothing to do with them being a 2 or 4 stroke, it was the price, the dealer, their service reputation, and how they treated me that swung the deal their way, I would have been just as happy (well I think) with any of the motors I looked at, and believe me I looked at them all, I have had a 2 stroke with possibly the worst reputation of them all, the "dreaded" Fichts, and put over 2,000 hours on a pair of them with no big dramas at all, so the e-tec did not "scare" me, they did not get a run simply because the closest dealer was 2 hours away, had the price been just a bit better, I may have taken them and put up with the added travel.