Snapper Ban and Associated issues. merged threads

[Lucky_Phill]

Maybe the logisitics seem too hard, but the concept of "bottom up" representation is certainly one that IMO can be aspired to..................and how awesome would a public meeting of thousands of anglers be??????????(LOL)

Keith, the 3 protest meetings we arranged ( SOBA Save Our Bay Association ) drew a small number ( or large, depends on how you look at it ) of committed rec anglers who voiced their opinions and started the ball rolling in having the recreational voice heard in the public arena. We had Government reps attend, politicians, media and the public.


There were more rec anglers attend a simple RIS consultation for a specific area, let alone a state wide issue.

Your statement asks how awesome it would be to have thousands attend.... etc...... yes, of course it would, but it ain't going to happen. Paddles is on the money, recreational anglers are apathetic and that's not being derogatory, it's just fact. If the Government want to see the numbers of rec fishers, just get the attendance figures from the " Tinnie & Tackle Show ", Brisbane Boat show, fishing magazine subscription numbers, fresh and salt water competitions, club members, tackle sales from BCF and other outlets..................

You will not get hundreds, let alone thousands to a meeting... why ?

1. who will call it ?

2. who will run it ?

3. who will insure it ?

4. who pays for the event ?

5. why attend..... if there is nothing tangible in it for them ?

6. the ego and personality clashes would make the 6 o’clock news and the real story would be lost.

This is my opinion….. a rec fisho will vote to get a $900 baby bonus ( which they end up paying for anyway ) rather than vote to fish in a certain area for a certain fish. A rec fishers leisure time does not come into their voting thinking, because there is nothing “ Tangible “ in it for them. No malice towards anyone here, just a generalization.

I have made my thoughts known on a Rec Fishing Licence and I am not in favour at this point in time. We could argue this for ever and a day, but until someone puts a validated and essential reason to have a licence, I will continue to oppose it. Having said that, Paddles, in his last line of his post makes some sense and worth a second thought.

Sunfish may wish to respond to the “ numbers “ they represent.

Keith, to have a single representative group or committee represent recreational anglers in Queensland would require an effort of monumental proportions. How many other committees represent nearly 800,000 people ? Shoot, if we had that many members, we’d run to govern the country ………….


Back to the licence issue. Having 800,000 people pay ( an average of yearly, monthly and weekly permits / licences ) $10 / yr. Funding is 8million. 10% for managing the funds, 10% for the collection points and 10% for educational / promotional expenditure. maybe subject to gst as well.


7.76 million to run the show sounds great and could work. Trouble being, you’ll need that representative group, who is on it, are they paid executive ? The usual SEQ Vs CQ Vs NQ issues arise., And with those dollars floating around, what government would not try to muscle in and siphon some off ? Further, would a government, then expect that group to fund research, monitoring and all other associated costs to do with Recreational Fishing management ? What would happen to the PPV ( or now called the RUF ) that is deducted from boat registration fees. ? Where would that leave Sunfish ?

IN the grand scheme of things, a representative group from all areas of Queensland both fresh and salt water is ideal. The Recreational Fishery is big enough to warrant this. How hard would it be for a Government to establish this as it stands now, and then bring in the licence once this group is established ? NOT hard at all, and in fact very simple, but that might take the control of the fishery away from the departments that oversee it and into the hands of the people that utilize and care for it……. Can’t have that happen… can we ??


LP
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[PADDLES]

the numbers look good don't they phill? it doesn't take much to get one krapload of income, even if kids under 18 were exempt and every adult had to pay $20 for a year the financial boost and most importantly the "not relying on government money" factor would be tremendous.

independent (of government) decisions could be made based on the members and any member could have the opportunity to make their way up to be chairman.

the sheer weight of recreational angler numbers that are now guesswork, would be 100% defined by the number of angling license holders. tell me that someone in government would not be listening to an advisory group with 500000 or more financial members, armed with sound, transparent, and well funded research and data.

is this just a pipedream? compulsory licensing or compulsory membership of a recreational angling association is the only way we can defend our future.

[PinHead]

sorry Paddles..the income would not even come close to doing research...but..if you are so intent on a fishing license, please detail where the money would be spent and who would control this.

hell..I can think of more ways of getting some more income..$5 launch and retrieve fee at all public ramps..and parking meters on the parking bays. Some places already have that so why not us?

The oceans belong to everyone, not just rec anglers. YOu cannot make independent decisions and implementations on this without Governemnt approvals. They need to be preserved in a managable way for everyone. It is the Government's responsibility to control this..but alas they obviously are not doing it well.

[finga]

Have a better look at their website Finga, I found your answers there in 30 seconds.
And maybe, just maybe 50 to 55 cents a year from the PPV component of your boat rego (for those of us with regesterd boats) would end up being used by Sunfish for surveys and reports like "discovering the true value of the rec fishing $ to local communities".

I said call me stupid. Where do I look in their site?

[PADDLES]

agreed pinhead, it'd have to be a government decision to impose a license and yeah final management of the fishery would still have to be the responsibility of government on behalf of all the people. and yeah, i have no frikkin idea what research costs or even what it costs to run a body such as sunfish for a year.

i'm more commenting on the need for a body representing recreational anglers to be 100% funded by recreational anglers, instead of relying on money from various government funds with no real commitment from government to those funds, and that a fishing license is a method of generating that money directly from the people being represented. the problem i have with imposing levy's on all boat owners via rego or ramp charges is that not all boat owners are recreational anglers and that not all recreational anglers are boat owners and the two should be kept seperated.

anyways, it's all food for thought and it's just my take on the benefit of a fishing license for us all.

[Lucky_Phill]

Comments from Dr Barry Pollock Chairman Sunfish Queensland

AUSFISH Guys,
I offer these comments in good faith, not wishing to offend anyone or be provocative. I do not expect total acceptance of what I have to say. However it may be useful for AUSFISH folks to understand where Sunfish stands and how it does its business.
Sunfish commenced over 20 years ago when leaders of all the main recreational fishing organisations united to form a peak body to provide a unified approach in Queensland to policies and submissions to Government.
Sunfish takes its direction and policy positions from its membership which includes all the major recreational fishing organisations and a State-wide coverage of regional Sunfish branches. All positions on the Sunfish executive and management committee are voluntary(unpaid) and democratically elected each year by the membership at the Annual General Meeting. All our submissions and policies are developed via a consultative process involving all our members, however we do try to determine what the many unaffiliated rec fishers are saying or requesting on fisheries issues - and include the concensus views in our submissions.
Sunfish covers ALL types of recreational fishing in Queensland. We have Sunfish reps(unpaid) on all Government advisory bodies that relate to recreational fishing. Some 45,000 Queensland residents are financial members of clubs, groups or regional bodies that are affiliated with Sunfish.
Sunfish and Ecofishers Qld have an informal arrangement to communicate on issues of mutual interest. This is working OK, but there is no formal connection between Ecofishers and Sunfish. Sunfish is apolitical, but we seek regular engagement with both the Government and Opposition, to obtain good outcome for recreational fishing.
Sunfish advocates responsible fishing prectices and sustainable stocks. We oppose fishing for money. We have recently decided that rec fishers should, if they so wish, take a limited amount of fish for themselves and family use - excessive "meat-hunting" is no longer acceptable.
There are some 750,000 recreational fishers in Qld. Most just want to go fishing and not get too heavily involved in representational or advocacy issues. Others do wish to have a say either in writing or by attending public meetings. Good advocacy for the recreational fishing sector is a challenge due to the numbers involved, the often differing aspirations of anglers, and the need to do advocacy at little or no cost.
Those rec fishers who register their boats pay about $17 annually for recreational fishing enhancement. The total raised by this levy is now about $4.5million annually. THIS MONEY IS PAID TO FISHERIES QUEENSLAND, a Government agency - not Sunfish. The money is used without any consultation by FQ to partly cover their costs for enforcement, research and monitoring, management, FISHCARE, habitat protection, fingerling purchase, and other core business of FQ. Each year Sunfish makes application for small grants from the levy for angler education, recreational fisher communications, and administration. NONE of this money is used by Sunfish for advocacy purposes - ALL Sunfish advocacy is done on a voluntary basis.
AUSFISH folks who wish to understand more about Sunfish should visit our website: www.sunfishqld.com.au
In particular check out our submissions and policy positions. Also download and check our magazines for details of recent activities and issues.
The challenge for rec fishers who belong to AUSFISH is to determine how you will go about putting your views on fishery management and related issues to Government. I have noted the discussion that you are having on this topic. The most effective form for good advocacy is via a united front - lots of individual views that differ are not a good way to catch the attention of Government decision makers. A concensus view, supported by most rec fishers can be a potent tool in getting good outcomes from Government.
Finally Sunfish is an open, demoncratic and responsible organisation trying the best it can to represent the collective views of its membership and the general rec fishing public.
AUSFISH and Sunfish have much in common - we are each based on a membership of many of the keenest anglers who are passionate about the future of rec fishing. We should not be highlighting our differences - we should be cooperating.
Over to you guys.

Posted with the express permission of the author. Dr Barry Pollock.


Regards

Phill
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[Gazza]

agreed pinhead, it'd have to be a government decision to impose a license and yeah final management of the fishery would still have to be the responsibility of government on behalf of all the people. and yeah, i have no frikkin idea what research costs or even what it costs to run a body such as sunfish for a year.

i'm more commenting on the need for a body representing recreational anglers to be 100% funded by recreational anglers, instead of relying on money from various government funds with no real commitment from government to those funds, and that a fishing license is a method of generating that money directly from the people being represented. the problem i have with imposing levy's on all boat owners via rego or ramp charges is that not all boat owners are recreational anglers and that not all recreational anglers are boat owners and the two should be kept seperated.

anyways, it's all food for thought and it's just my take on the benefit of a fishing license for us all.

Stupid idea...M8
Let's have the police funding the police...
Let's have Ambo's funding Ambulances

anyways RFL.....S-T-U-P-I-D idea
Regards to ALL
Anon.

[PADDLES]

police funding police .................... ambulance funding ambulance

c'mon gazza you've gotta come up with a better argument/response than that ............... at the risk of not actually just sounding stupid yourself of course

the ambulance service is funded by the people that use it, have look on your power bill next time

the police are funded by the government through our our taxes

either way it's user pays

i fail to see any parrallel between the funding source of our emergency services and the current government funding of an apolitical group representing recreational anglers.

[Gazza]

M8...Fishing 4 Recreation...ISN'T userpays , and never should be.


Ambo's "levy" everybody , and that is fine....IF you realise how much they "charge" for an Emergency Trip ,when you previously didn't have Insurance/Levy

Police don't normally ask to see your "Licence" unless you've already done something "wrong" or out of rego,etc.

RFL is BS , because it becomes a "Do you have a RFL??" waste of time , rather than Concentrate on the "REAL wrongdoers ,exceeding bag/size"

imo & respect yours.

[PADDLES]

i respect your opinion gazza

[Captain Incredible]

I have tried to leave this thread alone but the announcement of a carbon tax simply to please a minority of Greens has prompted me to raise my head above the parapet once more.

Keith, to have a single representative group or committee represent recreational anglers in Queensland would require an effort of monumental proportions. How many other committees represent nearly 800,000 people ? Shoot, if we had that many members, we’d run to govern the country ………….

Yes Phil, you ARE right. Better 800,000 Fishos than 20,000 Greens under Bob Brown as is currently the case. And Bob Brown IS governing the country. What does that tell you about the collective lack of vision & ambition of fishermen?

Don't tell me how hard it is- the longest journeys start with a single step, etc, etc. Do you really want to leave it to Bob?

The reality is that recreational fishing groups have apparently given up on trying to gain majority participation or to represent it.

"Finally Sunfish is an open, demoncratic and responsible organisation trying the best it can to represent the collective views of its membership and the general rec fishing public.
AUSFISH and Sunfish have much in common - we are each based on a membership of many of the keenest anglers who are passionate about the future of rec fishing." (Barry Pollock, Ausfish post)

If I were trying to represent a common interest in anything, in this case fishing, a major part of my time would be spent in recruiting new members. Growing the active membership is the only way to grow a cause. That's why you have young idealists from all manner of Green groups accosting you at shopping centres trying to garner your support on all things Green. New blood, enthusiam, new sources of donations, etc are vitally important to organisations and the ideals they represent. Simple logic. Gain plenty of soldiers. Big armies win the wars. Simple.

Here is a fair question (or a couple), at least in my opinion, for Barry. It will add greater understanding to AUSFISH members next time BP states that Sunfish is "trying the best it can to represent the collective views of its membership".

When did Sunfish North Moreton last hold a meeting? How many attended this meeting? Is the attendance listed in the minutes?

When did Sunfish South Moreton last hold a meeting? How many attended this meeting? Is the attendance listed in the minutes?

And what discussions are in the minutes regarding Snapper management?

The main issue at stake is not the numbers claimed to be represented, but the ACTUAL numbers of attendees at these two meetings.

Because if the answer is "not many", how are you, BP, recruiting the next generation, not the kids in the fishing clinics but the fishermen who are old enough to vote so as to reduce the gap between the "membership and the general rec fishing public".

There should not be the divide that I currently see in much of this Ausfish debate if Sunfish, funded as they are by yours and my taxes were more representative numerically of the general fishing public. And this is not aimed at bagging Sunfish but to ask that they begin actively recruiting, getting richer & getting a REALLY big army together to crush the enemy (no, stupid, not the pro fishermen this time, the Green peril!) And that should be going for all of us who claim to represent fishermen in any shape or form, pro, charter & recreational. And to support each other as fishermen of all persuasions.

As BP said, "we should be cooperating". Amen to that....................

[Captain Incredible]

The main issue at stake is not the numbers claimed to be represented, but the ACTUAL numbers of attendees at these two meetings.


Because if the answer is "not many", how are you, BP, recruiting the next generation, not the kids in the fishing clinics but the fishermen who are old enough to vote so as to reduce the gap between the "membership and the general rec fishing public".

I really think Barry that a number of AUSFISH members would appreciate a response to both these questions. Or simply respond, "I am not going to tell the general recreational community who subscribe to Ausfish how many Sunfish members actually attend Sunfish meetings in Greater Brisbane. I am not going to tell the general recreational community who subscribe to Ausfish how Sunfish which is subsidised by Government advertises for & recruits new members to grow the recreational fishers' voice ."

Simple really.

Because BP, the question that will follow is, "If you & Sunfish are not growing the recreational voice while being funded by Government, whose job is it?" And if Ausfishers think I am being too demanding, check out the excerpt from HANSARD from Parliament today. As charter are in the rec sector as reinforced by Minister Wally, I'd like to know that there is a strong, democratic, representative & growing recreational voice in Sunfish representing our interests too. Along with the rest of us rec fishers........................................... .

Mr WALLACE: Can I talk about snapper? When I became fisheries minister earlier this year, one of the first jobs that I undertook was to consult. I talked to people in the snapper fishery. Snapper is unique in Queensland in that it is our only major fishery that is predominantly fished by recreational fishers, that is, the mums and dads, the grandmas and grandads, and the kids fishing for snapper. I went out and I talked to the people concerned. I talked to them about their thoughts and perception of the snapper fishery and stocks out there. I had a lot of feedback about that. Indeed, I went up and down the coast. I met with people in Hervey Bay, on the Gold Coast and a lot of people here in Brisbane. I met with charter operators in the recreational sector who take people out.

Simple.

[Gazza]

What's the hard part Cpt.Inc ..your not allowed to catch&keep "SunFish"
"WE" RecFishos are already deemed to be 750,000
How many Charter/Pro numbers R U claiming

R U saying BECAUSE U have a "higher attendance %" at your "Money-Maker" meetings...Whoopie-Doo
...so...therefore things are stacked "in your Favour" , just because we do it for free

[Captain Incredible]

You are on the wrong page Gazza.

How are you getting your voice heard? Did you have personal input into Sunfish's position? Can you name your representative who did?

Will you in the future? Given that there IS no charter sector under Qld Fisheries legislation, how do we get a voice in future Fisheries Minister decisions?

Recs have plenty of numbers but do you have a say? Just because you "do it for free" doesn't mean you shouldn't ask the hard questions of the group who purports to represent you. Because no questions means no genuine representation.

Fisheries are possibly being dismantled as we speak. QB&FP were removed by Minister Wally a couple of days ago. Look very hard at how you will be represented if ALL fisheries management were taken over by DERM. Remember Lucky Phil was calling for a shift of management for rec fishos to Tourism. How about if we fell into the hands of DERM? Not pretty, I would reckon.

So now tremble about the possibility of DERM running rec fishing.

How would access to our fishery look then? There would only be one group who would have things stacked in their favour then & they would be Green extremists.

I have been banging on about the rec voice being truly representative & numerically strong. Get off the pro bashing & try to help clean up our own nest so we really do get a say in how our fishery is managed.

[Gazza]

Seems we don't have a "closed season" or "fishing for Snapper Lic." Cpt.Inc
What part did your "voice" do , to contribute to that outcome

Do you believe that with the reduced 20% RecFisho baglimit , should enable you to offer FREE charters to 20% of RecFishos

or should TAC(s) be reduced for ALL by 20%