Snapper Ban and Associated issues. merged threads

[murf]

All it demonstrated is that the Minister can ignore Fisheries, fisheries stakeholders & their investments in time, social engagement or financially to impose his own personal position on recreational fisheres and Industry alike without consultation.

Cheers,

Keith

so true no matter what the differences between us all

cheers Murf

[Angla]

Sunfish may be good or bad but the truth is that the Minister did what he wanted and not what anyone else suggested. He appears to have refused all concerned parties a seat at the table of negotiations and then imposed his own beliefs based on some ideas he has.

He has not won my vote

Chris

[finga]

Oh great. So the whole state is going to be stuffed and not just the Fisheries side of things.

Isn't it amasing that he knows he has a new job BUT doesn't know where it is or what it intails??

That sounds just like the rest of the Governments in Australia. They know they're there BUT haven't a clue on what they're supposed to be doing, what they're doing....and why.
All they seem to be thinking about is holding onto their own job and not concerned about anyone else's job or future.

[Lucky_Phill]

All threads pertaining to the Snapper bans, closures and RIS etc have now been merged into this thread.

Please keep all comments on topic and do not get personal with other members. All opinions and suggestions welcome.

Regards

Lucky_Phill
Moderator.

,

[Gazza]

Q. Is the TAC for Comm's &/or Charters being adjusted?? from the "Fisheries Science" as in the 4 original options ?? (relating to the Biomass <40% claim)

Q. will they pay "$x" / kg in the future ??

i.e. 4 snapper and 1 over 70cms.....would equate to a REDUCTION in the RecFisho take...imo/jmo , so are ?? the "other" stakeholders contributing fairly to "saving the Fishery"

[Lucky_Phill]

Gazza,

There are a lot of issues still unresolved.

ITQ's for Charter

Commercial effort reduction or not

Charter effort reduction or not

An accurate method to measure recreational take

An accurate assessment of Bio-Mass, both virgin and current

A modeling system that takes into account the true variables encompassing the whole fishery, including habitat

An accurate assessment of the socio-economic benefit to Queensland and indeed Queenslanders of the Snapper fishery

An accurate picture of regional stock assessment, ie :- Gold Coast, Moreton Bay, Offshore Moreton, Sunshine Coast, Fraser Coast and places further north.

Also, a Fisheries Queensland department that talks / consults with other departments who's portfolio overlaps with Fisheries and moreso, consultation with Department heads and Ministers.......... I won't even mention consultation with the stakeholders..

By the way, did anyone notice a certain Ausfisher holding up and handing out " Option 5 " flyers at the RIS consultation meetings ? spooky !!!!


Cheers

Phill
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[Jono_SS]

I think a few people are missing something about the charter boat part of the snapper fishery - either that or I am! i.e. as far as I'm aware (is that afaia?), rec fishers on board charter boats will have the same bag limit as rec fishers on private boats, just like they do now.

Jono.

[Bill_Corten]

Good to see you back into the fray Judy
Your comments about someone trying to pull your tail are spot on and you have read the situation particularly well.
The shabby way Barry Pollock was treated was the thin edge of the wedge from what I hear. A bit of karma here.

Regards
Bill

[Mark Robinson MP]

That is a completely fair argument. I too would love to see the LNP policies. But credit where credit is due, Mark is on here consulting directly with grass roots anglers, he stood in parliament and backed a motion in support of Rec Anglers/stopping the bans and I think has earn't the right to say he got a victory on our behalf as the bans have been stopped and "management without bans" has been achieved. Other than the died in the wool Labor voter who would never consider it I think the rest of us can cut him some slack.

He may just be building support for an election, but on the face of it, he is the first state member that I can remember(other than the other bloke from out west that put the motion through) that has shown us any real support in recent times. This is a far cry from what we have been getting from State Labor over the last decade.

Mark, as shadow member for Fisheries, could you kindly find out for us what the government has implemented with respect to the Commercial Sector or has the only restriction been on the Rec Sector? Also it may help in the interest in this thread if you copy and paste your transcript from the parliament motion before the lock out?

Cheers

Chris

Chris, your questions are all reasonable and I will answer what I can. The LNP will release some policy directions soon and more details when the election is called (can't help the timing of that - up to Anna Bligh). Be assured we are carefully listening to all fishing sectors to get the balance right across the board. Good fisheries management and rec fishing starts with having a positive attitude to the fishers who are doing the right thing (recs and pros), and includes getting the science right. Last weeks govt announcement was not an attempt to get the fisheries management right, but a political damage control exercise. While I welcome the govts decision to support the LNP policy of sustainable fishing without bans, I do not believe they are being honest about dropping the bans they introduced. The fact that there is nothing about commerical fishing in the announcement supports my case. In fact they have tried to appear like heroes because they say they won't introduce bans, but they have only placed restrictions on recs, no-one else. Is that the right way to go - hit one sector only? I would be interested in your view and solutions on this.
And up until March 2011, the govt's position was that the science dictated annual bans because in their view bag limits and size limits would not achieve anything. So have they really changed - I doubt it? - are they buying time to get through an election, and then undertake an immediate review followed by a mid 2012 ban if re-elected?
In March 2011 the LNP introduced a disallowance motion in the Qld parliament to stop Labors 6 week snapper ban. Every LNP MP who spoke, including myself, spoke AGAINST the snapper ban and all LNP MPs voted AGAINST it. Every Labor govt MP who spoke, did so FOR the snapper ban and voted FOR the ban. A link to my speech is included, others can be found in hansard [for my speech and click here http://#######.com/3vt3vgw ] Mark
Try http://www.facebook.com/note.php?not...50098881501906

[Lovey80]

Thanks for the reply Mark, could also kindly answer what your thoughts are on export of Snapper, re interstate or O/S if the stocks are in such bad order?

Now that I have thought about it more I think there is merit in a permanent slot with a bag of 5. Something like a 40-80cm slot (all sectors). When this was first suggested a while back the main arguments were mortality of released fish and upgrading, Well it appears that those deep water Snapper fishos, from their responses will simply not target them and the inshore reefs will get hit harder. Upping the MLS to 40cm addresses this (and roughly protects 13% of the annual take) and if fish make it to 80cm they are to be returned (regardless of mortality rates they get a chance) and considering the patches of large fish will not get targeted apparently then we should see a significant increase in the % of larger fish left in the biomass.

So if it were me I would implement.

* 40-80cm slot for all sectors (commercial sector will cry foul because they want their 35cm Snapper).
* Release tool (fisheries to recommend) to be mandatory on board all boats that take Snapper (got a snap on board and no tool get a fine).
* Charter Sector to adopt the same as Rec's as it is Rec's that are taking the fish on board charter boats not the operators themselves. So NO TAC for charter sector.
* Charter and commercial sector to maintain log books of Snapper catches.
* 120 ton TAC for the commercial sector.
* No fees to be paid by any sector.

Review after 10 years.

[finga]

I know why this QLD Government has got rid of the snapper no-take period.
Simply put....It worked. The period of no take worked that well the snapper stocks increased to the levels the where the ban is no longer needed. Ever think of that as a possibility??
Using that scenario maybe they should ban snapper fishing for 6 months and there would be no need for any bag limits let alone size slots. Even Pinhead would be able to catch one as they'd be jumping into SottibaR

Gees it's hard to know fishing rules now. They get changed so often and are that complex you near need to consult your barister before wetting a line now-a-days. That sux big time.
What happened to the day when rules were rules and they were not changed for years at a time?

How's a 13 year old who fishes every school holidays supposed to know the rules when his mum and dad can't understand them or know when they change due to the lack of education out there?
It's getting to the stage where even those who fish all the time do not know what the rules are anymore.
I have to admit I'm lost as to what's what (ie what to clip, where you can't fish, bag sizes, size limitations etc, etc, etc) and I would definitely have to consult something/someone to know if I can keep a fish and what I have to do to that fish to be able to keep it.

It can't be that difficult to make some rules that people would be able to remember would it?
Or is it a ploy to make things so complicated that they just throw everything back into the briney because they haven't a clue if they should have it in the creel or not??

Does anyone know the current fishing regulations for all possible scenarios or possible captures off the top of their head??
I most definitely don't

[dayoo]

Thanks for the reply Mark, could also kindly answer what your thoughts are on export of Snapper, re interstate or O/S if the stocks are in such bad order?

Now that I have thought about it more I think there is merit in a permanent slot with a bag of 5. Something like a 40-80cm slot (all sectors). When this was first suggested a while back the main arguments were mortality of released fish and upgrading, Well it appears that those deep water Snapper fishos, from their responses will simply not target them and the inshore reefs will get hit harder. Upping the MLS to 40cm addresses this (and roughly protects 13% of the annual take) and if fish make it to 80cm they are to be returned (regardless of mortality rates they get a chance) and considering the patches of large fish will not get targeted apparently then we should see a significant increase in the % of larger fish left in the biomass.

So if it were me I would implement.

* 40-80cm slot for all sectors (commercial sector will cry foul because they want their 35cm Snapper).
* Release tool (fisheries to recommend) to be mandatory on board all boats that take Snapper (got a snap on board and no tool get a fine).
* Charter Sector to adopt the same as Rec's as it is Rec's that are taking the fish on board charter boats not the operators themselves. So NO TAC for charter sector.
* Charter and commercial sector to maintain log books of Snapper catches.
* 120 ton TAC for the commercial sector.
* No fees to be paid by any sector.

Review after 10 years.

The rec reps on the RRFF working group suggested increasing the minimum size to 40cm and a possible restriction on the larger snapper at the Southport meeting 3years ago.

We also recommended that a release tool be mandatory for all species.
What was recommended by the working group did not end up as an option in the RIS. Fisheries added fees and the 6 weeks closure despite my warning that this would not be acceptable to rec anglers.

The Commercial sector has not exceeded 100 tonnes of snapper over the past two years according to Fisheries snapper catch records. So any Commercial TAC should be around this figure.

Your suggestions are close to what I consider fair to all sectors.

Cheers
Barry

[Lovey80]

Arrrgggggggggggggggg This is the third time now that I have hit reply to thread and the page refreshes and long posts have been deleted. This is really giving me the shits with this new forum!

[honda900]

I too would like to take the time to thank Mark for addressing the problem in both the media and in parliament, without such publicity we would not have got this reprieve (for now).

I also see this as an opportunity (as per Lovey80, chris's comments) to put forward and idea's and thoughts that Mark can potentially take with him into the portfolio, should that occur.

I too await the release of the LNP's policies to personally assess their viabiltiy and the social impact these will have.

I would also like to ask, for his opinions on how the Departmental staff have handled this issue, what changes he would make to provide better outcomes for the for the public / fishery with regards to wasted expenditure that could be better redirected to more viable solutions.

Regards
Honda.

[Mark Robinson MP]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful contributions to this very important debate. I do apologise if from time to time the politics is a turn off. I am stuck with the tag 'pollie' but I have had 26-27 or so years as a professional (< 3 years as an MP) and 43 years as a rec fisher. I fish myself as often as my busy life allows. I am passionate about getting the fishing right and to leave things in better shape should we win govt at the next election.
I have tried to read every comment on this debate and take it all on board. One of the frustrations I heard at FQ meetings was that rec fishers opinions seemed to be dismissed - that will stop should I become fisheries minister in a CanDo LNP govt. While I am also a marine science graduate, it always annoyed me that some marine scientists totally ignored the opinions of rec fishers and commerical fishers. I have since come to understand that some marine scientists are not objective, but are actually virtual Greens party members and as such have not always presented pure science. As I said, very soon some broad strategic directions on fishing and fisheries management (those we have been espousing to date) will be made public, with more detail and announcements when Anna Bligh announces the election. I would like it to be sooner than later too. Tight lines and take care on the water, Mark