I honestly don't know what all the cloak and dagger shit is about a bloody fishing policy. If the LNP has a policy on fishing then why not show it, Ausfish is time stamped so we know who said what first, and who can lay claim to it. FFS you would think that the LNP think a fishing policy is equal to the Manhattan Project!
I don't get what the animosity is here with Mark. Sure he used the back flip to score some political points against the ALP, sure there is no official "Policy" set in stone for Rec Angling as a whole but he has said for months now that bans will not be a part of LNP policy and that specifically Snapper can be made sustainable with out bans.
So you bunch are jumping on the band wagon that "There is no official LNP Rec Fishing Policy" yet if this point scoring episode had not been attempted by Mark and he had released nothing, then after the LNP win the election, the "Science" said that a ban was needed and LNP introduced a ban on Snapper, guaranteed, you same lot of parrots would be the FIRST to jump on the band wagon and recount his words that there was an LNP policy of no bans on Snapper! It is one thing to have had enough of pollies playing politics but it is another to slag him off when you all know that he has been on here getting the views of Rec Anglers and telling you unequivocally that the LNP would not introduce bans on Snapper!
Inversely,
It was not a Federal ALP policy before the last election not to introduce a Carbon tax on Australia, but the PM came out in public the day before the election along with that muppet Swan and stated on the record that a Carbon Tax would not be introduced under an ALP government in this term. Yet they have just proved themselves to be complete liars and are introducing a Carbon tax. Are you lot going to sit back now and completely ignore that public promise because it "was not ALP Policy" at the time? 70% of Australia surely isn't thinking that is ok! As far as the public was concerned, the ALP they were voting for would not be bringing in that tax-hence does not have a mandate to bring one in.......
Slag Mark off for not having a Policy on Rec Angling out now, fine! But don't slag him off for making a promise to us that there would not be Bans under a LNP government when at the time the ALP wanted bans as ALL of their options then claiming that it was their "policy" that Snapper could be managed without bans because: HE HAS BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS NOW!
For the record, I advocate that IF Snapper need further protection that I would be very happy with a MLS of 40cm, a bag of 5 with only 2 over 70cm.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
Nagg, you are not dumb, no one that reads these pages over time thinks that you are dumb, ideologically minded yes, but not dumb. Don't play dumb and try to make anyone think that at any time you thought that Mark EVER advocated reducing bag limits or introducing size limits. YOU and everyone else bagging Mark right now know that all he promised was that LNP Policy would be that Snapper could be managed WITH OUT BANS! Don't try and play dumb in support of your beloved Labor party and nock the LNP because they are the LNP.Originally Posted by NAGG
Some of you blokes should be pollies, you can make a play on words as good as anyone for your owen benefit.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
Thats the best comment in this whole thread!
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
Keith,
Sunfish sought the views of its members and put up its submission on snapper management which was published on its website. A key part of this submission was that the in possession limit be maintained at 5 but with only two over 70cm.
It is obvious that the Sunfish executive had private discussions with the Minister just prior to last Sundays announcement and agreed with the reduction in the possession limit to 4 and only 1 over 70cm which was not what was agreed to by Sunfish members. It is apparent that this is a political decision to take the heat out of the debate until after the next election.
Sunfish now expects that recreational snapper anglers will cooperate and submit records of snapper catches to Fisheries which was part of options 1 and 2 in the RIS. Anglers are no fools and I am sure will not cooperate after getting the rough end of the pineapple while Commercial Operators continue to harvest snapper at the existing rate with no reductions in effort, tonnage or size.
Cheers
Barry
Just my belief adding 1+1 together. We do alot of work for many pro fisherman, and are kept upto date with who's catching what. One pro boat taking 2 tonnes of snapper, we catch one nice fish each and head in! Brownie has the same thoughts as me, as do my fishing mates. Ask me again in 30 years when you cant catch one cos they are not there. The government really has to pull their finger out. The snapper ban was in the QLD mackeral season more than the snapper season! We were chasing mackeral like the pro's, and most others that time of year.
Stop professional fishing... before it's too late!
Barry I feel so sorry for you and all the other great folk sitting on boards trying to make it "real" only to be totally shafted in many ways by the political process, I am sorry you have wasted so much time, effort, money and many hours of thinking and talking to stake holders for what seems was all for political reasons not factual reasons
cheers Murf
Re: Snapper ban sinks under pressure
WHEN DO THE NEW SNAPPER REGS COME INTO PLAY ... IF IN FACT THEY EVER DO?
As just a poor and simple soul (and despite having read more than 600 words - many of which were less-than-informative motherhood and nanny state syrup from the Minister), I still can't find any mention whatsoever about when the 'new' snapper catch regs come into force. Is it now? Next week? Is it if Labor wins the next election? Is it next month? Next season?
Given that the Premier faithfully promised that she would not remove the 8 cents a litre fuel subsidy and then did, does this also mean that the Minister's statement about new snapper restrictions is also fictitious and if not, then why didn't he give a start date?
And if he didn't have one, then why make an announcement about something that may or may not happen in the future?
SUPERDAFF
Confused As Usual
Last edited by SUPERDAFF; 28-06-2011 at 10:08 PM. Reason: SPELLING
Re: Govt backs down on snapper bans and adopts LNP policy (for now at least)
WHEN DO THE NEW SNAPPER REGS COME INTO PLAY ... IF IN FACT THEY EVER DO?
As a just a poor and simple soul (and despite having read more than 600 words - many of which were less-than-informative motherhood and nanny state syrup from the Minister), I still can't find any mention whatsoever about when the 'new' snapper catch regs come into force. Is it now? Next week? Is it if Labor wins the next election? Is it next month? Next season?
Given that the Premier faithfully promised that she would not remove the 8 cents a litre fuel subsidy and then did, does this also mean that the Minister's statement about new snapper restrictions is also fictitious and if not, then why didn't he give a start date?
And if he didn't have one, then why make an announcement about something that may or may not happen in the future?
SUPERDAFF
Confused As Usual
Thanks for the response and I have highlighted in red some thoughts or questions.
You replied to my question about you providing a link or info on recreational catches being a " spit " compared to commercial fishing, but the best you came up with is " just my belief " !!! Not being sarcastic, but " just my belief " really doesn't provide any help. If we are to maintain a debate or try to influence government / fisheries decisions, we have to do better than " my belief ".
I dare say you filled out the RIS and put forward your thoughts and were a part of the consultation meetings. During that time you would have been made aware of the " numbers " of Snapper taken by Rec, charter and commercial. Although the numbers for the rec guys is dogey at best, the charter and commercial numbers are accurate. I would be interested in your " number " of Snapper taken by the rec fishing fraternity within the Snapper boundaries of Tweed Heads to Mackay over a year.
Some stats that might help
there are 237,000 registered private vessels in qld.
it is believed there are 6000 - 9000 recreational anglers that target snapper
Average weight of a legal snapper is 1.9kgs
also..... 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish..... rule of thumb.. !
Having said that, 10% of 6000 = 600 each bagging on Snapper and because they are the 10%'ers they average 5kg / fish = 25kgs per trip and say...8 trips a year = 200kgs x 600 10%'ers... 120 tons just for the good guys. Let's add in the other 90%'ers getting 2 fish per trip x 6 trips a year @ 1.9kgs per trip = 123 tons.... total rec catch 243tons.... well, that is " my belief ".
The total commercial catch quota is 108 tons.
That summary does not quite look like a spit... IMO.
It is widely accepted that the rec catch rates are guesswork, but somewhere, somehow we have to get some sort of figure on it. More importantly, we have to get the modeling right and the input data for that modeling has to be much more accurate and accepted.
For what it is worth, the RIS option 1 puts the Rec catch limit at 260tons.... which, according to my belief figures, is over and above what we take now. The Fisheries believe rec take is about 450...plus tons. average that out = 236,800 fish , which is about 40 snapper per year per snapper angler.
Given that snapper can produce up to 3,000,000 eggs per spawn, ( which may happen up to 3 times a year ) and there is a 90% mortality rate = 300,000 snapper ( one spawn only ) reaching maturity from only one breeding snapper..... and rec anglers are taking 240,00 leaving 60,000... bugger me if those remaining 60,000 spawn.... minus mortality, that is 163,800,000,000 snapper introduced into the system ( after only one year and from only ONE snapper from the year before ).
OK, so where are all these surviving snapper going ? Even if we said the mortality rate was and extra 5%.... that still leaves about 81,900,000,000 snapper out there waiting to attack a Nuclear Chicken Gulp......... no ?
anyway.... that's my belief.
LP.
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I asked the same in post 29, not sure if anyone knows yet.
Chris..why would some of us be asking for the LNP policy. I think the answer is quite simple. We want to see the policy for the Party..not from Mark.
Look at a couple of scenarios...what if the LNP wins the election and Mark loses his seat...will not matter what Mark has said if someone else is running the Fisheries portfolio.
What if the LNP win and Mark is promoted to another portfolio...the new incumbent may say that anything Mark said is null and void.
Some people will always vote LNP and some people will always vote ALP regardless of their local candidate.
Some of us like to look at who the local candidates are and try to vote based on both Party policies and what sort of job we think each candidate can do for the electorate.
If it is good enough for the LNP candidate to be sending me election literature now then it is good enough for me to be asking for their policies.
They are obviously in election mode so I want to know what policies they have on several issues and fishing is one of them.
"Follower." Huh. Ask Mark if I'm a "Follower." More like a pain in his arse.
Seems the guy making that remark has his head planted so far up Anna's butt he needs a torch. Still, ignorant people will have their opinion, I guess.
And regarding the fact that Mark may not make it through, there are two other LNP Members, one Candidate and one Labor Member who are quite familiar with my stance on fishing, who I take every opportunity to remind how Recreational Anglers will treat them if they fail us. The statements I have received from the Labor Member are just the most outrageous spin I've ever seen - no wait, we get it every day from your precious ALP.
So I've backed the LNP horse in this race, but I ride it like a $2 hooker. Yep, that makes me a "Follower." Spoken like a true, rusted on ALP, heavy browed neanderthal if ever I've heard one. Ooooga Booga.
Tim
Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.
I would be much happier with the 5 bag and two over 70 scenario. When I heard about the changes I figured there would be minimal impact on the overall Snapper population as the fishery scientists had looked into changing size and bag limits and deemed it would be ineffective in rebuilding the population. It looked like a political stunt that would get Labor a few more votes come election time.
After reading a fair few responses it looks like it will have a significant impact on the populations biomass where many anglers will put their efforts into catching a feed of smaller fish rather than traveling long distances to grab 5 much bigger fish. The result of a successful trip will be the removal of 4 x 1.5kg fish rather than 5 x 4kg specimens which is only 30% of the biomass being removed (as well as a significant decrease in carbon emissions). You can fish every weekend for much the same impact as the once a month big bag.
I will be watching very closely to see what sort of impact these changes will have on the way we chase Snapper. It probably won't change the way I fish the shallower reefs with plastics and will mainly hit the guys who hit the deeper reefs.
A Proud Member of
"The Rebel Alliance"
Tim, you are not the only person who is blinded by where they have their head inserted. Just because some of us don't appreciate inaccurate and inflammatory press releases being posted in a discussion forum and seek clarification on various points it does not make us Labor voters. If Mark wants conservative and swinging voters to fall in line in vocal support for him and his party then he has to give us something to work with rather than spin.
I have asked previously what "scientific" research is going to be conducted by the LNP to get the information they want to develop their fishery management plans. Who is going to pay for this to be done and what will happen in the interim? Lets see some details of this policy
Labor has tipped its hand as to their direction. Now would be a good time for the LNP to come out with some policy details. Something along the lines of the original Sunfish submission of a 5 bag with 2 over 70 would sit pretty well with the general fishing poulation and could be used while more "research" is conducted.
A Proud Member of
"The Rebel Alliance"
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