Direct Injection 2 strokes

[bigjimg]

BigE would the 135hp be too heavy?It is running at the bottom of its capacity,being de-tuned,whereas the comparison between an Etec 130 and the Opti 125 just isn't debatable,the specs are chalk and cheese.You could run the 130 and 135 side by side but not the other 2.Also honestly smell of fumes is laughable,anyone here who complaines of smell with these engines should get a job at the airport sniffing for illicit substances.Jim

[BigE]

Bigjimg
I did look at the 135 nice weight and price are the issues the 2.5 l vee 6 is sure to out perform the
E-tec. I think the extra weight would affect the handling at lower speeds in the rough and your adding some $$ to the mix as well.

I do like the thought of all that 2.5l torque. does anyone have the full 200kg hanging off a 1750l transom.


BigE

[BigE]

.................................................

[Dicko]

. If I were to go DI again I would probably get an Etec and only because they seem to have the edge over the TLDI for swinging larger pitch props

I see they've changed the gearbox ratio on the recent model 90's.

The Tohatsu's are very underrated due to their smaller dealer network & minimal advertising but are pick of the bunch for reliability & fuel economy. They're a pretty thorough system which was sorted & bugs ironed out prior to putting it on the market for consumers to do the R&D....unlike what happened with the early opti's and etec's

I would have had another for my current boat but they don't come big enough so had to go opti.

[LittleSkipper]

For those that have or have not seen this video...You be the Judge?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XRCDN3JKZ0&feature

[Spaniard_King]

HAHAHA... Do you seriously beleive the data!

The right people could reverse that data and visual outcome given the same boat with different prop setup

[ozscott]

Most of the boats shown in that vid have twins...there is a reason for that (at least they can get back if one throws an error or does an injector...). I just love the guitar rifts.

Why bother (apart from marketing hype to go with the rifts) to measure the top speed of both motors...a motor that does not plane versus one that does. If the yammy had been propped for the boat and planed it then of course it would rapidly accelerate once the boat achieved the plane. Its just absurd.



Cheers

[ozscott]

I was told by golden seal marine the other day that they went to look at a blokes mid size etec the other day...just out of warranty (of course) and the trim and tilt unit had failed. He said it might well have been just a cheap valve but because it was a completely sealed unit they could do nothing but throw it. I hope this does not become common amongst all manufacturers..

Cheers

[cormorant]

Ok here we go again

Lets assume that both motors were propped with correct factory props yadda yadda yadda

Would the etec "win" and why? Not that it is a reason to buy.

Basically good ol boys at evinrude have selected the yami and placed it on a boat. They could have maybe trimmed better as well I guess. Yami couldn't get it over the hump. Yami without direct injection couldn't suck enough fuel into the combustion chamber to accellerate and partly due to valve train not designed for that as they are designed for the ecconomy compromise.

Etec has a ability to get a huge amount of fuel directly into the cylinder - big benefit of direct injection.

What was the purpose of the test? Advertising to make a visual statement.

We can find out the resistance coefficieints of a hull to emulate the "hump" so in effect you could set up a dyno and prove the results and no doubt buth Yami and Evinrude have done this. Yami could have redone the test - why didn't they? Nothing better for advertising than proving false advertising and I'm sure all other manufacturers would have thrown in teh $ to help!!!


From personal experience I have done this test. Results were the same but and a big but - downsides - fuel usage on the direct injection was huge , that is going to lead to unbunt fuel and carbon so I wouldn't be doing it for long and a overloaded non breathng 2 stroke won't last long term.

Unitary construction of heaps of parts are there to discourage rebuilders and possibly to make production cheaper or more effecient. Often even where access is avaliable to unitary parts the internal parts are specific to that unit ( odd size / shape orings) and are'nt avaliable seperately. All ok if the OEM parts are at reasonable prices and last a reasonable life. Truth is that the manufacturers parts prices can be horrific.

G S l have a choice. Make a non genuine that can be used in a range of motors , learn to break into the unitary trim and contract out to have special seals and springs made up. It takes a large order number to make the design and production worthwhile. Took years before non genuine lowerunits were avaliable and they still required the cores as the chineese cases they were using were less than perfect. Do all that at a cheaper price than a wrecker can supply a unit? Of course no one is going to pay GS extra over a wrecker just to change the oil , test if theyknow there is no way they can tell the quality and longevity of a unit internals.

If something has failed "just out of warranty" I find it hard to believe that if the owner had approached the dealer and BRP in the right manner that worst case they wouldn't have worst case come good with one at a wholesale price or better as a tilt trim should last more than 5 years? Consumer affairs depts are getting better at this now. I would expect the same from every manufacturer. I honestly don't hear of many 5yo tilt trims failing on commercial boats so a domestic client would be hard pressed but it would happen. That said if it is a corrosion or maintainance or battery power set up issue issue that is something different where teh clint may have to fork out full $ GS could have bought one wholesale for the glient and added $50 for the phone call to help em out worst case but still wouldn't be cheap..

Manufacturers have a choice to supply parts at a reasonable cost to keep their motors running long term or not and that will affect their reputation. Rebuilders have a choice to fill that gap. Public have the choice to buy from anywhere in the world and take advantage of the currency now as well.

[ozscott]

I dont doubt that the injected 2 stroke has more sheer stonk than the same size 4 off the line - I object to the silly advertising full stop. As for trim and tilt - i dont know what the owner did, but he went to GSM because it needed a re-build, but they couldnt do it. I like the idea of being able to get bits for the trim unit (a $15 valve for eg). I dont like throw away - it ends up costing more for the owner. I dont know if other manufacturer's are doing it, but god help us all if this is what the modern outboard has come to.

I will go back into my old cave now and re-build my old reel...

Cheers

[cormorant]

Yeah there is not a lot of difference in motors for most applications and stunts do no motors brand any favours but do keep advertising speil writers in jobs.

I'd just like em all to not quibble when it is a fault that should be covered and to all train their dealers in how to support their product not try and make a money trail from parts .

I'm off to my cave as well as I'm chasing John Deere gator stuff at the minute. A gearbox for a 10 hp motor is AUD4200 and in the USA only USD2600 retail. The parts to rebuild mine are unavaliable individually and I must buy 2 of 3 kits avaliable and new cases - that totals AUD 6000 ha ha and the kits overlap in parts contained in them.
So it is not only outboard manufacturers who are preying on gullible consumers.

Then off to sevice a 38 year old direct injected motor - yep a volvo diesel

Strange arguement as in a few more years when technologies merge some more we will have more direct injection regardless of 2 stroke or 4 and we will have 2 stroke with hydraulic or electric valves / exhaust port all trying to get the most out of a charge of fuel. Hopefully the technology comes about due to good engineering and longevity reliability rather than a pollution law.

What will be compare it to - electric or turbine ?

[Jabba_]

I was told by golden seal marine the other day that they went to look at a blokes mid size etec the other day...just out of warranty (of course) and the trim and tilt unit had failed. He said it might well have been just a cheap valve but because it was a completely sealed unit they could do nothing but throw it. I hope this does not become common amongst all manufacturers..

Cheers

You'll be sad to know that the Trim/Tilt unit used by Evinrude is also used by other outboard manufactures......

Oh I have aslo heard a rumor that VMR Southport have swapped from Suzuki to Evinrude.. Now where is my popcorn...

[Jabba_]

Most of the boats shown in that video have twins...there is a reason for that (at least they can get back if one throws an error or does an injector...). I just love the guitar rifts.

Why bother (apart from marketing hype to go with the rifts) to measure the top speed of both motors...a motor that does not plane versus one that does. If the yummy had been propped for the boat and planed it then of course it would rapidly accelerate once the boat achieved the plane. Its just absurd.



Cheers

The point is, both motors are propped to achieve 5700rpm while both motors are pushing the boat, but only one motor could push the boat up on to a plan by itself.....

If 1 motor was to break down, it would be nice if the other motor can get you home up on a plan and scooting along, especialy if you have a nasty bar to come back across...

[ozscott]

Thanks Jabba. Bugger about the tt units. As for propping how could they prop it for 5700 if they didn't trial different props on the yammy to get it on the plane first. I could theoretically prop an etec for a 28 footer stick it on and see it not get on the plane. I still don't understand the validity of the test. If the yammy was propped to get it out of the hole and then top speed was less than the etec cause the etec could get that hull on the plane in about the same time/distance I wouldn't be lambasting the test. Cheers mate

[OPTI]

the 2 strokes make way more tourqe than the 4 stroke,nothing to do with the direct injection,one of the reason mercury supercharged thier four strokes was to give them similar tourqe of the 2 strokes,thats what that video demenstrates.