Originally Posted by Tickleish
i agree i have gone back to two stroke as i love the power and since i dont do large hours a two stroke is cheaper to keep if i was a pro i would have a 4 stroke.
i agree i have gone back to two stroke as i love the power and since i dont do large hours a two stroke is cheaper to keep if i was a pro i would have a 4 stroke.
560c Bar Crusher "Overtime"
And this all shows that its a shame they are phasing out the sales of new carb 2 strokes...the market is simply those use their boats infrequently and want reliability with the maximum drama of a carb clean (if not drained...that really saves the drama) if left with stale fuel for months and months versus very expensive rail/injector work if the same trick is done on a direct injection.
I think if you are keeping a boat for the next 10-15 years say and dont use your boat often a grab a the last of the carb 2 strokes would be a very sweet economical thing in the last days of them..the sale prices should be pretty decent.
Cheers
Boat: Seafarer Vagabond
Live: Great South East....love Moreton Bay fishing
yes will get one for 4 metre tinny before there gone
560c Bar Crusher "Overtime"
Only probs with running older low tech 2 strokes will be if the "new " fuels don't mix well with the oils. No one will spend the time and money to check compatability past 10 years. Smaller volume oils will get more expensive. Guess it is no different to the vintage bike and car clubs who through trial and error sort it out now.
The opening of the software on some of the newer electronics will make servicing / diagnosis easier rather than being held to ransom by a smarmy dealer. With powerheads getting so reliable an 4st so complicated I think the engine/ powerhead rebuilders will be soon out of business especially if the manufacturers reduce costs of replacement powerheads a bit. Not many people wearing them out and people are changing as fashion or as warranty ends or rules force the issue regarding pollution.
The portable market is the big weight advantage for teh 2 strokes with the compactness and so little electrics. I love my small 2 strokes and frankly couldn't lift a bigger heavier verson over the back of our yacht after racing. Guess it will be replaced by a torquedo for harbour racing and a 4 st for offshore work and a backache.
As the owner of a TLDI & regular user of an optimax, could I weigh into this discussion. My experiences are with an 2004 90hp TLDI & an 06 75hp Optimax.
I think I have given this account before in another thread sometime ago, but here it goes again.
When I was looking to power my Razerline I went through the process of deciding between 4 stroke & 2 stroke DI. For various reasons I went with the later, but had then to decide which DI to go for. It came down to the etec & the Tohatsu. I chose the later for the following reasons.
- I was concerned about & had the misbelief that Etec was heavily based on the failed FICHT technology.
- I'd had an un-nerving experience with the Etec fitted to the test boat
- On paper the TLDI seemed to have greater grunt out of the two
- Price. The TLDI was considerably cheaper & teh dealer sweeter than the equivelant Etec.
In the 6 years that I have had the TLDI, I have never once had reason to question its reliability. However, I am disappointed with its grunt. Like Moonlighter suggests it is a little noiser than a comparable Etec and yes it does sound like a blood diesel, with its clattering injectors, but its still far quieter than the Optimax that is on the other boat I use. I feel its also smoother.
As already mentioned the Optimax is an 06 vintage. Fitted to a (5m) 490C Northbank. After initiall having reservations about the suitability of a 75hp motor for this boat I was happily surprised by how spritely the motor pushed the hull along. However over time I have noticed that the motor does not seem as smooth as my TLDI, is noisier, & seems to produce more smoke. The later being easily discernable by its smell from the helm position of the boat. Now the helm postion of the Razerline & the Northbank differ, the razer is a runabout the other a cuddy and the the transoms are different in that the Northbank has a motor well where the Razer is a built up transom withan extended pod. So it could be argued that the smell is there in both but noticed more in the Northbank because the fumes are being sucked back when underway. Once well and truely powering away the smell disappears, so i wont draw a conclusion on it, but i thought it worth mentioning.
The torque from the Optimax is incredible and the boat would benefit greatly from some hydraulic steering as turning against the prop direction can be arduous at times. I have also noticed that over time the controls have become clunky and less fluid or smooth as those of the TLDI. Unless things have changed the reccommended oil for the TLDI is a semi-synthetic produced by valvoline & a fraction of the cost of that reccommended by Mercury for the Optimax.
Where the TLDI suffers between the two in my opinion is;
- after sales support. My questions to Lakeside Marine on various things go unanswered and it can be hard to get service from the limited dealer network. Well its limited in SA & even more so in Metropolitan Adelaide.
- Torque
- less gauges as standard and cant hook up to smartcraft or similar
- S/S prop as standard on the Merc where the standard alloy props on the TLDI are shit. I swaped the standard prop to a S/S Vengence and the difference was easily noticable. I could trim the motor out further and turn the boat at higher speed without cavitation. In essence it seemed to hold far better than the tohatsu alloy prop ever did
- Resale value.
Which one would I purchase if I had my time again? Well I wouldnt get the merc, thats for sure. If I were to go DI again I would probably get an Etec and only because they seem to have the edge over the TLDI for swinging larger pitch props
Coontakinta
Thanks for your view. What was it about the opti that made you not like it.
It just doesnt seem as smooth or as quiet as the TLDI. Granted that the transom set up on the two boats in question are different. The Northbank having a well & the Razerline having a pod / fastback arrangement & this later set up may help with keeping noise out. Exhaust fumes are more noticable from the Optimax & the control box feels agricultural when compared with the TLDI and when trying to "fine tune" the throttle position it seems much harder to do with the Optimax.
I'm not saying that any one motor is better than the other, just that my preference is not for the black.
Looks like it will be an E-tec 130 or an Optimax 125. any thoughts on how these two stack up head to head?
E-tec has less belts and things an doesn't need big batteries and has 4 cylinders.
Opti has cheaper oil and better economy.
BigE
I think I like this bloke. I have a V6 2 stroke (must be the only bloke with 1000 hours on a ficht according to this thread) and a VH Charger (and a AP5 wagon). I do all my own servicing. Buy all the parts out of the US and the computer program was only around $120.
Oh, and cormarant is a good source of info on these motors if you have any issues too.
The Opti does not stack up
The E-tec uses less oil (although slightly more expensive), E-tec has less exhaust smell, E-tec is a lot quieter, E-tec has a 133amp alternator with VRS the opti has 60amp, E-tec V4 1.7ltr - Opti 3 cyl 1.5ltr, E-tec 3yr-300 servicing, Opti 1 year 100hrs servicing.. E-tec has no belts or pulleys and is a smaller in size (appearance) to the 125 opti
Not sure how you could get a accurate idea on fuel consumption being the E-tec has 1 extra cylinder and .200cc greater displacement.. Maybe the 125 Opti would be more economical, but it's behind in every other aspect
my thought exactly.....my accountant has a yamadoey and he's the most boring man i know ! the major reason why i bolted a opti on the new boat was i just love the sound of them taking off, i don't sit there with it idling and saying.........gee quiet motor hey...phfft. warm her up and give it to her and listen to it sing on a crisp morning just on sunrise on my lake.......ooohhh yeah love the smell of expensive dfi oil in the morning !
Deano
To answer the question asked i don't think there is much diff between the opti and e-tec. both have the nice grunt down low and very reliable. bit like the holden/ford thing i reckon, have always had mercs and always will end of story. have no idea about the tohatsu. running costs are less for the e-tec for sure, i'm not that concerned about running costs at all, even if the e-tec cost half to run i'd still have a opti.
enjoy your purchase and get out there !
oh, you need to bear in mind nearly everyone on here is biased towards the motor they personally run, i am totally one eyed, no question. no amount of debate on here would ever change my view.
good luck in the quest for the perfect engine.
Deano
Last edited by djgtom; 12-06-2011 at 07:39 AM. Reason: one more point
[QUOTE=djgtom;1290350]To answer the question asked i don't think there is much diff between the opti and e-tec. both have the nice grunt down low and very reliable. bit like the holden/ford thing i reckon, have always had mercs and always will end of story. have no idea about the tohatsu. running costs are less for the e-tec for sure, i'm not that concerned about running costs at all, even if the e-tec cost half to run i'd still have a opti.
enjoy your purchase and get out there !
Your right though black is beautiful
DoNotFeedTheTrollsAandBelligerent
'
On paper I couldn't agree more. But the fact is that Opti is the more developed product. Now I agree that down the track ETEC should and probably will overtake, but at the moment Opti is probably the most resolved modern motor on the market and the most reliable, despite the shortcoming of having the extra hardware of the compressor.
Cheers
Boat: Seafarer Vagabond
Live: Great South East....love Moreton Bay fishing
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