Rod building help

[Daintreeboy]

I've just received a blank from the states and have decided I'm going to have a crack at building my own rod.
Thanks to Mark Fisher off here I'm going for some top quality stuff so need a little help so I don't get it wrong.

The blank is a Black Hole 250g. Blank weight is 142 grams and is 5 foot 8. Butt diameter is 14 mm and tip is 4 mm.
I'll be setting it up for a spinning reel with 80 lb braid.
Current guide size I have in mind is 40, 25, 20, 16, 12, 12 and a 12 tip (4 mm ID). Guides will be CMNSG. Will be fishing for Red Emperor etc. so not really expecting to ever cast with the rod.
Rear grip length to the real seat will be around 28cm, real seat is a custom painted Matagi DPSD 16 with some extra bits.
Should I ask for a 14 mm even though it is not in their catalogue?

Foregrip will be around 19 cm.

So do these guide sizes sound right and any ideas on spacing? Action is parabolic so under load (10 kg drag) I may get a little bend in the foregrip area even.

Thread was going to be the pro wrap metallic stuff from mudhole. A size for underbinding and D size for overbinds. Is this stuff good and is it strong enough to overbind with? I was going to use the Pro Kote for epoxy.

Anything else I need to know before I place an order?

Thanks in advance.

By the way these rods look awesome. A similar weight to the Jigging master 250g but stronger. I think we'll be hearing a lot more of these in the future.

[Micadogs]

Hi DB, I am no expert rod builder but some of my suggestions / observations:

I use size 8 guides for 55lb braid, my rigs also use a 60lb wind on leader and never had an issue casting or with hang up of the leader for dropping. Put a dot the size of the line/leader inside an 8mm diameter circle and you will see there is a lot of free space.

I think you could down to a size 10 guide (maybe even a size 8) and it will just make the rod look better with smaller guides at the top IMO.

If you are not casting, then you dont need a 40 size guide to start, I normally start with a 25 size. This will save some $$'s and also can make the rod look better IMO.

What sort of reel are you using?? If 80lb braid, I would assume a reasonable sized reel. The size 16 reel seat you mention may be a bit small/undergunned. I just received an IPSM size 16 reel seat and it wont fit a Daiwa 4500 reel (spinning) properly. I will now be putting a Daiwa 3500 reel (spinning) on this reel seat. I have DPSD at home in size 16 and it is pretty small.

Maybe you want to look at aluminium, pac bay channel lock are relatively light weight and come in smaller ID's

You dont mention the grip material. I have found EVA better than cork if you are going to get bend through the grip.

I use size A thread for everything underbinds and overbinds (mostly 2 x overbind for offshore work in A) with a thin layer of expoxy to stop the next layer of thread digging in. Looks great at the end as you cant see any threads.

I loved the Pro Wrap metallic thread until the last one I just used. It was the calcutta gold and it kept "stretching" for want of a better word. The finished result looked crappy with different colours all the way through it. I ripped it off and did it again with a different brand and all good. (Thread tensioned at the spool, not on thread either). I have read about fishhawk being one of the most favoured metallics around. I haven't used it yet. Others will hopefully comment. I have had some success with pro wrap and one failure now.

I like the pro kote paste epoxy, I think it is really good. I really dislike the pro kote binding epoxy. I found it bubbles really bad and was hard to work with. I have stuck with Flex Coat for the bindings. Others will hopefully comment on this also as to their favourites.

Regards Adam

[Mark Fisher]

Mark I agree with Adam in his summing up of the guides. The only thing you may need a decent size tip for is for clearance of any doubles/traces etc you may plan to use. If you are just using braid with a join to mono you will find you don't need large guides or tip diameter (try a wind on leader). As for the thread, go with the size A for the underwraps and double overwrap in A. You could use size C but don't go larger. There isn't a need if you use the smaller guides mentioned. I read something years ago from Ian Miller about multiple wraps of size A being stronger than a smaller number of wraps of size C or D. He called it the "Gulliver effect". Don't get me wrong, C and D both have their place and can be used just as effectively as A. As for the metallic threads, I just can't go away from the Fish Hawk brand metallics. They are IMHO simply the best out there. They are great to work with, don't stretch and loosen and don't fray like some better known brands. For trims and crosswraps it is my Go to brand. Epoxies are all pretty good now and it comes down to personal choice. I like Threadmaster at the moment. Flex coat is excellent as well. Also, go with the EVA. Make sure you reel seat fits the size of reel legs you are going to use. I would probably go for something like one of the ALPS seats in a matching colour to what colour scheme you are planning. Again, make sure your reel legs are going to fit the seat.


Regards
Mark

[Micadogs]

Ah yes - when I talk about the leader in the post above it is a 60lb wind on leader. I have also used an 80lb wind on leader with size 8 guides and never had an issue either.

I completely forgot about the ALPS reel seats. They have an awesome range!!

I have also just used a Mudhole Project X reel seat. They have two sizes, are light in weight and appear to be pretty good. I haven't fished with it yet.

Regards Adam

[trout head]

To add to what Mark said , I did find Flex coat yellows faster than the others , with the Alps reel seats , I use Alps , IMO they are a far better finish than others I have tried , The size 20 will stake a Stella 20000 no worrys , on the Blank you have ,you should not have a issue with the reel seat , as it should not bend that far , not being as parobolic a blank as others .

Ian

[Daintreeboy]

Thanks guys.
So the latest in guides sizes is 30, 20, 16, 12, 10, 10 and a 10 tip. How does that sound?
After looking at the custom painted Matagi seats I am keen to try them instead of the Alps seats as I already have 2 rods with them. How robust is the paint job though? Maybe I should go back to Alps and be safe.

The reel will be a Stella 10000 SW so a reasonable size. I can get some measurements but do you guys think a bigger DPSD seat is needed? I guess I can just ask Matagi themselves?

Sounds like Fishhawk will get the thumbs up this time around.

Thanks again

[Daintreeboy]

Right which one do I get? Metallic or Metallic P?

http://www.fishhawkthreads.com/thread_metallic.html

http://www.fishhawkthreads.com/thread_metallic_p.html

[Mark Fisher]

I've been using the first one above and the Silk Sparkle. The Silk Sparkle is a more subdued colour and is perfect for underbinds. The metallic is great! I haven't used the P Metallic. There are no worries with the Matagi paintwork on their seats. It is excellent and will not flake or chip off but that doesn't mean you can bang them around either. The DPSD will be fine for what you want it for. It's hard to comment further on your planned guides without a static guide test and seeing if you get any line slap. From the sounds of it you don't want an outright casting rod in any case.


Regards
Mark

[Micadogs]

Hi DB, I put a Daiwa Catalina 4500 size reel in a DPSD 16 reel seat last night. The 4500 did fit. I think the 10000 Shimano may have a similar sized foot so it should be ok.

You can get a bit more bling for a size 16 reel seat, especially with the KDPS hood. All the metal parts later in the catalogue fit this hood and you can make it look pretty awesome. Plenty of other metal parts that match up to the fixed hood as well to make a special looking rod.

Regards Adam

[Daintreeboy]

Adam can you show me a pic of a fitted KDPS hood on a built rod? I've never seen one which is the only reason I was going to go with the fairly standard DPSD seat. For that I was also ordering a rear and foregrip ring plus a tighten nut set.
Are you saying I can get the same with a KPDS hood? What other bits were you talking about?

This rod is going to cost me a fortune!!!!

[trout head]

This rod is going to cost me a fortune!!!![/quote] Ah yes crasshopper , but think of the joy of the first fish caught on your own rod .

[grave41]

Im sorry but i disagree ,depending on how parabolic the blank is you may need a 40 guide as it also depends on reel size as well . If you are using a stella 2000,daiwa expedition ,accurate twinspin 30 you will need the 40.
IMO Graham