How Good is your Braid after use, maybe not so good

[Paulus]

Hey Guys

This is a work in progress. So this will change after a while, Longer term it will only be a link.

I did some braid strength tests some time back, then had the same lines sent back in for retesting after some use, just to see how strong they still were.
I was surprised to see not only the damage to the braid, the slight increase in size, but the reduction in line strength of up to 45% in some cases.

Some lines / brands reducing in strength more than others

I read a lot in these posts about lost fish and unexpected line breakages, for what seems no apparent reason, well maybe a reason lies within here.

Another thing comes to mind, removing so called wind knots and tangles, I see that an idea is to slobber all over the line and pull each end and the knot comes out, and at the same time you most likely just lost 10% of the lines strength. Or a little rubbing on the line on the spool by some thing while traveling, then wonder why it broke for no reason???

So, to the Guys that are setting reel drags, to the results of tested breaking strains, lines tested to breaking point, you may need to reconsider the level you are running to, well take 22% off the top if the line has had a few outings, in a few instances a lot more.

So it brings me here.

I spent an incredible amount of time trying to artificially duplicate the wear results, maybe even to try to pre-age the line so its similar to usage, UV exposure is not included in the tests, although may play a part.
Set up, I made a jig set up with 3 new Shimano eyelets (these have a flattish section on the inside) do not use any other eyelets or it will not work. The 2 lower eyelets are set opposite each other at 55 deg off horizontal, jig weight 510 gram in water 458gram, (not all of the jig is in water). See Jig photo.



The wear / age process.
The line is passed through the eyelets with each end of the line held on rods, the jig is lowered into the water covering the 2 lower eyelets, movement of the line is, one end up and the other down, the process does not try to lift the jig up off the bottom, but does move it about.
Every 10 strokes the whole of the line is turned 180 deg, left to the left and right to the right, no twists in the line, total strokes 100, that is 50 up on the left and 50 up on the right. That 100 strokes is a total of 50 cycles. Each stroke is 400mm long.
I know that more and differing types of loads and twists are on lines, but this a simple procedure and can be easily done.

Photos.
The shots were set up so they are all the same and line sizes can be compared.
A jig is the used to hold the camera at the same height and position, a 0.305mm marker is shown, to show size relevance.
I know that you will never accurately duplicate line use, far too many variables, BUT if it looks worn, faded and its size has increased, its time to renew it, or at least remove some.

I started here.
Photo 1, Used and new.


Photo 2, Used and new.



When they start low they wind up even lower.

These are the lines that were put through the wear / age process.
1 and 2 are the same lines as 1 and 2 above photos.





The following lines are lines i had as retained samples.









Used sample below.



New sample 100 strokes below.



Hollow lines below



This is a new line that was sent in for testing by GDC23 some time back.



This is the same line after a little use, off the same spool thanks GDC23. The line looked good, but its not a 100lb line as the ABS initially indicated.






When you think about wear of the braid, you think about line in and out of the water, then back and forth along the runners, line tearing through the water, strain on and off the line, winding up on the spool criss crossing itself, line tight around and rubbing on the anti twist roller, with a little luck fish thrashing about, but having seen this photo it's an added wearing action.



Having a manufacturer under state the strength of the braid may be an advantage with this, as you can see that 22% of the strength and beyond can be lost, for those that use line where the actual strength is below or at the stated strength, then loosing 22%+ can be an issue, especially as some can loose 45% strength,,,, That's based on the samples, method and the tests that I have done.

I had a Used line sent in, a sample off the used end and a sample from the inner most section on the spool.
Inner unused section tested at 101.9lb the used section 84.8lb. A plait sent in with the line to form a double failed at 76.2lb.

Which brings another twist into all this, the knotability of a used line, and that is another story.

So,,, That ABS does not hang about for long. and makes some of the numbers that get bandied about seem short term.

Paulus Just Fishing

Paulus

Paulus Just Fishing

[Willo]

Great info there Paulus
Be interesting to see the exact same test with same line using Fuji Silicon guides, Begin that they are supose to disipate the heat and not get a hot spot.....
Willo

[ifishcq1]

Good Job Paulus
I know it is expensive but after a few decent fish I always get rid of the top braid that has worn
it came about after dropping some fine fish at the first sign of strain
besides good braid is pretty cheap on the net

cheers

[Paulus]

Hi Guys

I did set up origionly with some silicone guides cost me a fourtune and yes they were great, but did not give me the result i was looking for, that was to replicate line usage over time.

Some of the causes of reduced abs.
Loss of coating, whether it was Teflon, silicone or coating waxiness, salt between fibres would do a lot of damage, fibre paths disturbed, i think that reel line rollers with anti twist do a lot of damage, then the line being dragged across each other on the spool would do a lot of harm to it, loss of fibre glossiness would be the main cause, lets call it line condition, and a conditioner may help a little in the very short term. will see. Loss of fibre condition, when you touch the line it feels like you have been on a boat all day.

When I added this part to the post,
I had a used line sent in, a sample off the used end and a sample from the inner most section on the spool. line was only in use a very short time.
Inner unused section tested at 101.9lb the used section 84.8lb. A plait sent in with the line to form a double failed at 76.2lb.
Which brings into all this, the knot-ability of a used line, and that is another story.
Well i tried to condition the inner section of line, all i managed to do was deteriorate it even further. But will continue on.

Paulus

[Brent_P]

Very worrying, but thanks for the info, Paulus.

The Japanese braid I use is very expensive, and I often fish in deep water, so stripping off 100 metres of line after every 3-4 trips is not really an option. Luckily, I have very rarely broken my main line on a fish, but I must've been fishing much closer to the breaking strain of my line than I thought (since I have always used the "as new" ABS as a guide to drag settings, rather than the stated breaking strain).

You say "then the line being dragged across each other on the spool would do a lot of harm to it", and I personally believe that this would be one of the largest contributors to line wear on a spinning reel. You only need to look at the way line comes off the spool when a fish is taking line against drag, especially if the spool is at the highest or lowest point of its oscillation, to see that this "line against line" rubbing would cause a lot of abrasion, even before you take into account the sharp turn in the line around the line roller. The same would be true when casting a spinning reel, but to a lesser degree.

For these reasons, I believe that spinning reels cause more abrasion to braid than overheads (especially overheads with no levelwind). Unfortunately, many of my reels are spinning reels, though for "heavy work" I use overheads, with the exception of my Stella 5000SW.

I would be interested to see you "wear test" the unbraided Berkley Fireline, since this line seems very popular and the actual breaking strain is over 200% of the stated breaking strain when new. I used 30lb Fireline offshore about 6-7years ago and the wear (even using an overhead) was extremely rapid and quite visible. Though I didn't test it myself, I believe the ABS was down to something like 25% of its new ABS after only three trips, based on drag setting and line breakage.

Do you still sell your bimini tying tool, Paulus? I've been thinking about buying one - I tie plaits at home before I go fishing, but they are difficult and time-consuming to tie offshore on a rocking boat. I have tried tying biminis (in new line), 50 and 70 turns, but they broke at about 70% of the ABS when tested on scales.

Cheers,
Brent.

[Paulus]

Hi Guys

Paying an awful lot for a braid does not gaurentee that it is along lasting line, I am starting to see that uncoated lines and to some degree teat treated lines may last a little longer.
Maybe topshotting is the way to go, but only if you splice the line as shown in the other post i put up.

NOTE, do not go Uni to Uni with joining lines, if you have time stitch a splice 100% strong.

The Daiwa and Bionic braids did not come off well.
I am seeing some very poor high bs Chinese lines at the moment with little use they drop to 50%.

If you have a sample of that Japenese line and even better if you have an unused sample as well, it would be interesting to do a few tests.

I am still making the tools.

Paulus

[Brent_P]

Hi Paulus,

I mainly use YGK Ultra Jigman, and I have actually always assumed these ultra-thin Japanese braids were less abrasion resistant than thicker braids of the same breaking strain, because they are thinner and therefore have less surface area, but I didn't think they would lose so much of their breaking strain so quickly. I did, however, think that smooth, slick braids were more abrasion-resistant than coarse braids of the same diameter, for obvious reasons, but your results with Daiwa Boat Braid and YGK Nitlon seem to contradict that idea.

Berkley Fireline is not a braid, and my 30lb spool went from black to a very light grey and furry with broken fibres after only three trips. Surprisingly, many of your posted photos of the various samples show very few or no visible broken fibres, and yet the breaking strain has dropped by more than 20%. So your line might look perfectly fine, but test much lower than you think.

Cheers,

Brent.

[Paulus]

Hi Brent

The fire line is still a braid but it's heat treated and fused.



The pale green is an old 4 lb line and i could not seperate the strands, as in the white crystal is 3 strands.
The teltale white strips on the lines are the strand cross overs.
When the fireline snaps it exposes the strands and seperates them.



This was also a fused line.

When you start to loose colour then it's at the end of it's life, and that can happen quick.

If anyone has any used line let me know. Thanks
Paulus

[Brent_P]

Paulus,

I'm splitting hairs here, but I think you could argue that, in Berkley Fireline, the loose and apparently haphazard bundle of coated strands is not braided like a "true braid", which is what gives it that non-uniform twine-like appearance. I agree, Berkley Tracer Braid is a braid like other braided lines.

I have included a photo of the old black 30lb Fireline. Berkley must use a 4th strand in the higher breaking strains.

Cheers,

Brent.

PS. I will send you an email tonight, asking how I can order one of your Bimini tying tools, and thanks for providing a great service with your listings of actual breaking strains and line diameters.

[Paulus]

Hey Guys

I guess this is all about good information, and no BS (thats not breaking strain).
We have moved into a new melimium and information is important, not old wives tales of the past.
I hear every day across some 75 web sites across the world poor information. Guys on youtube showing how to tie lines make splices ALL wrong as they have been copied from another place.
All I can say to some is, can you not read or see. You can lead some to water but cannot make them drink.
Joining lines do not use a Uni, it will let you down.
Any way A good bimini is good, a poor bimini is bad, a poor stitched loop is good, that tells it all,,,, but not on a rocking boat.
Braid topshot and replace that every 6 / 12 months.

stay safe
Paulus.

[Paulus]

Hey guys
Some one sent me a mail telling me that Power pro was a tough line.

This is not about a line being tough, but a line wearing within it's self, I guess that is its just wearing out with use, as the process goes on the abs drops, I guess it does not take long, before you loose 22% some as much as 45%.



I just so happened to have a retained sample, I guess this shows around 36% reduction, from original.

Paulus

http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

[Cheech]

Good to see the Woodstock wearing well. Very happy with the 10lb I purchased last year.

[tropicrows]

I normally use FINS braid and have been more than happy with it's performance, however I just purchased some 80lb PE DYNEEMA BRAID online very cheap.
Has anyone been using this, is it any good.

[Paulus]

Hey Guys

I worry a little about some of these ebay lines, This is one of them.

The first one, green colour i tested was as low as 49lb. Remember that this supposed to be a 90lb line.



Although it did not loose a lot of strength with the 100 stroke test, it never had it in the first place.

Paulus

http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm