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Hmmm thats strange there was a post here that seems to have vanished. I wonder how that happened.
Hey Guys
The method has changed a little, after conferring with Roger I have changed the insertion length a little, maybe i was a little over caucious.
Solid Braid to Braid Joins / Splices and Loops. This may change the way you do things.
This is for the guys that are involved with fishing to the extreme, so getting the max out of a knot is important.
This is part of a series i am going, it has a lot to do with "why did my braid fail for what seems no reason". maybe I should be saying why did I loose that / those fish......I seem to read a lot about this.
Braid to Braid Joins/Splices that is in "solid Braid".
Well maybe the line was just old and tired and had a damaged spot,,, or just one bad join to many, or just used to much and reached the end of its life. Another series.
But here we are looking at solid braid to braid joins, so some of the above is another story.
I have been looking around at a lot of info on this, on the web areas i looked at, tended to wander off onto hollow core braid and its better to use it, as its a strong splice,,,, well not true,,, not now??.
I found on most of those websites, knot-ability of "braid ???" can be around 60% of abs, but getting to that 60% is a hard lot, with much trial and error playing about, just to find out your joins are failing early, you may never find that stated 60%.
Further checking into it, I found that the percentages mentioned were mainly based on braid to terminal knots, without a knot put forward. I have always said with braid knot-ability, "what knot" and then onto to what, and where is that knot applied??.
At times we need to top up our spools with line or top shot, but when hooked up, and you see that knot run off the runners and out into the blue, you worry and so you should, i do, a great marlin out there and a knot, nothing like getting that knot back onto the spool to breath easy, but don't work it to hard getting it back.
So I set out to do some knot tieing and testing, and playing about I could get anywhere from 35% to 58%, so off I went to try some more playing with variations of them.
I found that with solid braid, line to line I could not get to the 60%, as has been mentioned, i did get a lot of 35%, 45%, with double Unis, and in desperation I got to an improved double Blood, that was 12 up 12 back twice through the center, then on the other side the same, with all this i had a lot of trouble to pull it all up tight, but the Spiderwire stealth went 62% not all that good i thought.
I know that you can go bimini to bimini, and that will give you 90+ or so percent, depending on what and how well you join the two loops, keep in mind it also depends on how good you do those biminies, some good some terrible.
Because of all the testing I am doing, and the controversy of loops in hollow core braid, loops used for testing verses loops for fishing, i have had to perfect the method of holding the braided line on the bollards, so loops for not only the hollow core, but solid braids came into play, putting loops in solid braids as thin as 4lb and only 3 strands 0.150mm, had put me on another coarse of investigation.
I suppose that has led me to this point.
Some of us just want to top up the spool with additional line, as it's getting low, and it's no good saying, start with a fresh new full roll, then you don't have joins, or fill it up with hollow core so you can splice, dollars and line on hand may be a contributing factor, or maybe the line has been good and served them well.
The 60% knott-ability statement had me wondering as I could not achieve it.
A few emails later I found it had nothing to do with line to line, but line to terminal.
Now i have allways been one for an improved Double blood knot, to join thin lower breaking strain braids, with these braids it works well, that's if you flatten the braid and fold it over, and that's on each end, making the braids footprint bigger and the knot bs result better.
Results of my solid braid to solid braid joins, done with a coated braid and a non coated braid both have a bs of 78lb.
1, a quick double uni 4 times thru, tested 28.4lb, 35% in Spiderwire stealth, it started to slip and cut itself. The same knot in a 6 strand PE heat treated braid, tested 40%
2, a double uni 8 times thru, tested 33.3lb, 42%. in Spiderwire stealth, also started to slip a little and cut its self. The same knot in a 6 strand PE heat treated braid, tested 51%
3, a double blood 12 up 12 back over the top, twice thru the center, both ends the same, in Spiderwire stealth, tested 48.4lb, 62%. The same knot in a 6 strand PE heat treated braid, tested 76%.
This I thought was not all that good, I wondered is this as good as it was going to get, I know that you can get another 5 or so percent on the bs by running the braid between your thumb nail and fore finger each side a few times to flatten it out then fold it before you do the knot. And yes, the outside fibers need to bend less than the inside fibers, maybe that's why it helps.
I would never have thought that stitching a splice in solid braid would ever work, but in desperation to get the bs up that is what i decided to do.
I had a few differing methods that i tried, and all those joins test results exceeded the best that i had achieved before.
So it seems that you can splice all braids.
This is not a procedure that i would do on a boat, but sitting at home getting ready it's easy.
You do need a few bits n pieces.
A fine sewing needle 1.3/4 inch long, with a slender eye so it's easily threaded with 2 feet of 20lb braid dark in colour helps, this forms the pulling loop.
If you are like me you will need a magnifier on you forehead. You can see the needle stitched into the braid.
For Splice No3 just do the first insertion longer.
All of these joins work well, although No 3 has given the best result to date.
4, the splice tested at 72lb, that is 92% with tapered ends on the braid tag ends it went 95%.
5, the splices with the 8 turn Uni knots does give a little protection on slippage and provides a lock.
6, Splice No 3 gave a test result of 78lb this was a 99%.
7, Splice No 3 gave a test result of 133.8lb in a 138lb 8 strand braid, thats 97%.
8, joining the 78lb to the 138lb, using Splice No3 gave a test result of 78lb thats 100%
Just takes a steady hand and a little time to do, the added benefits are worth the time invested.
Paulus
Hmmm thats strange there was a post here that seems to have vanished. I wonder how that happened.
Hey GuysThis is a follow up on the post did on splices in solid braid as a join. I used Tasline 8 strand 0.545mm abs of 137lb. Thin and very strong.
Only a hand full of loops are available for solid braids.
Surgeons end loop.
Bimini twist.
Ausie plait
Maybe we can add to this, i am sure.
Well we now have a Spliced loop for solid braid.
This all started with quoted knot strengths in braid stated at 60%, and I struggled to find this 60%, although the Bimini did well, its not 100%, nothing ever will be.
From tests done in the past by myself, the bs test results on both the Bimini and the Plait i have seen as being dependant on the type of line being used and the tier, as the loops bs test results do vary from knot to knot.
I am most likely an average knot tier, and like most of us try to do my best.
I know that you can say more turns but on lines in the 50lb bs range, around 50 turns pretty much pulls them up, they are not 100%, some very good results can be achieved, and don't say go to hollow, most lower bs hollows in this bs area are solid anyway.
Because of all the testing I am doing, and the controversy of loops in hollow core braid, loops used for testing verses loops for fishing, are very different, I have had to perfect the method of loops and holding the braided line on the bollards, loops not only for hollow core, but also solid braids as they also came into play, putting loops in solid braids as thin as 4lb and only 3 strands 0.147mm, had put me on another coarse of trials and investigation.
I suppose that has led me to this point.
Strong loops can also be made in solid Braids similar to a bimini twist. Although I think that the worst bimini tier will be able to make a better spliced loop and get better bs results on a regular basis.
A little additional inside information.
Some results.
A bimini in a 137lb 8 strand solid braided line gave me 121.9lb.
Both these loops gave good results.
The tag on the inside and then locked with a 8 turn Uni I got 121.7lb.
With the tag all the way inside gave me 126.2 lb, had i teased out 15mm and tapered the tag end i could have got better.
With the tag on the outside then with it tucked in, i got 122.1lb. had the tag been feathered out 15mm and tapered, the result may have been higher.
With the tag on the outside then the 8 turn Uni lock knot, it tested at 113.4lb, which i thought was a little low.
I increased the stitch count to 60 and the length to 240 it tested at 134.7lb that is 97.6%.
Re tried the 78 lb line tested at 78.4lb broke the mainline, so i guess thats 100%
Although the tag on the inside is easier to do, and it saves time, it seems the latter gave a better result.
I imagine that with longer / more stitches, you would get even higher results.
As you can see these should not to be done on a boat, are strictly done at home in front of the fire.
I am still playing with all this so the results may get even better.
Paulus
I thought i would add this, it was a difficult job as the line is almost a solid.
The line failed before the splice did.
Normal lines can be done with the naked eye, and only take minutes to do.
Paulus
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