have always used a tub to run and flush out my motor, never had any probs with corrosion and the mechanics have always commented on how well loooked after the motor is. it does use alot of water however i dont think you could do a better flush, gets the leg and prop submerged in water.
Baker,Originally Posted by the baker
I see it, Suzuki logo & all, but it is at odds with my Zuke 175 manual.The manual cautions against EVER starting the engine with the flush port providing the water supply. I had a 90 previously & it also had a caution in the manual about this. Yammys have the same message in their manual. Maybe Spaniard King, who is a Honda Master Tech, may have some input on the Honda.
ROLL TIDE, ROLL.................
Regards,
Peter
As far as a flushing tank not being water efficient...I disagree.
Result for result, it will be more water efficient that any system where the water goes directly to waste.
If you only flush for 5 minutes, you will not be getting the thermostat open.......I know how long it taked to get warm water running out of the bottom of the leg on two machines and it is a lot longer than 5 minutes.
so if you run a motor for 20 minutes to half an hour on muffs or a connector...all that water is just pissing out, with very little oportunity to recycle.
I start my motor before every trip and run it at least 5 or 10 minutes maybe that day mabee the night before......with my current arrangement I can tilt the motor out of the tub and use the same water when I come home.....when I am finished, I can pump or siphon the water onto the gardens or whatever.
Now remember too that you should not rev an outboard at all with out the prop in the water......in a tank, you can give the engine a little rev, that will boost the water flow.
If you think your thermostst will still be open because the motor has been running........you are dreaming, thermostats open and close by variable amounts as the engine runs........it may be closed by the time you get to the ramp 6 knots and off the plane especially if the water is cold...it will certainly be closed by the time you get it home, or as soon as the cold water hits it.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
oldboot -
so, how long does it take to get warm water running out of the bottom of the leg?
and, what type of tubs do u use to flush your donk?
splash
the drawback with flushing in a tub/tank/drum is the size of the container needed to get adecent size outboard in the thing, and unless you have some method of moving a big container (forklift?) then you have to empty the thing out after use, then refill again for next time, a suitable container for (say) a 90HP motor will hold at minimum 120 litres of water, and probably much bigger to fully submerse the leg and stop it getting bailed out by the exhaust! running on the "muffs" for 20mins would use half this amount.
Last edited by Noelm; 29-03-2011 at 11:53 AM. Reason: spelling
I bought the large collapsible bag from BCF for a 115 2 stroke. It takes about 15 mins to get enough water to flush through a normal tap.
The adavantages are that its quieter, my motor has a much stronger tell tale than on muffs, if you wish you can run with a few more revs, the bag collapses to empty ( on the lawn ) and to store away. Its also easy to take away on trips.
Disadvantages of this bag are that its a bit flimsy and sometimes needs support on uneven ground. You also find out how dirty a premix 2 stroke is by the scum left on the bag.
We connect hose on flush port briefly if cold and then flush on muffs with a exhaust plug in. Can run well above idle without much noise and the thermostat opens quicker and you can force the pooppit/ bypass open so less time fuel and water wasted.
New motors run hot ( to met pollution requirements) so I don't like putting the flusher on a hot motor but that is my preference as I haven't seen failures directly from warped heads etc so........just old school on no cold water on hot parts.
When moored we used onboard freshwater tank and muffs on to give a proper flush. Pain fulling up watertank all the time and checking you don't run out but cheaper than corrosion.
I'm still undecided on the flush solutions as I have seen motors that have used them clean as a whistle and others no different to normal water and I can't work out why exactly.
Would love to see a ceraminc coating on all internal water passages so then you could use a more agressive descaler and not worry about the thin cooling passage walls. Hmmm a 2 stroke with enclosed gylcol or oil cooling circuit would still weigh less than a 4 stroke and with those new diesel outboards they are headed that way to ensure turbo cooling is not compromised.
I have seen motors that are used basicaly the same, flushed the same, but the difference in salt/build up internally is like chalk and cheese, have no idea why this is the case, I kind of put it down to a couple of things, one is how much stop start boating you do, my theory being that the motor is hot, you stop, the salt dries inside, you start up for another drift, motor gets hot again, you turn off, salt dries again, and so on, also, how long it may be from when you leave the water, to when you flush it, my ramp has a washdown area and some flush there (me sometimes), but I also live about 2 minutes from the ramp, so flushing takes place quite quickly after leaving that water, whether these things have any influence of build up is anyone's guess, but it is the best I can make out.
Running in the tank both the motors I look after take about 10 minutes or more at idle to run properly warm out the bottom of the leg..
For the Young brotherin laws 30 merc I cut the front out of a 44 gallon drum and put it on castors...it holds about 80 litres to get the water above the cavitation plate.
when finished I can tilt up the motor and either wheel the tank out or drag the trailer forward......this works but it has its issues.
for my 60 everrude, I baught a big black tub from bunnings ($50), full this holds arround 180 litres, to get it above the cavitation plate, I have to fill it about 2/3 full.
by lifting the front of the trailer with the jockey wheel and having the wheels just off my carport slab, I can get the skeg right on the bottom of the tank.
this tub is rectangular, and allows me to tilt the motor up and out, If I then lower the jockey wheel, I can pull the trailer forward and clear of the tub, leaving it in place and full of water.
remember I do not waste the water, I pump ( old bilge pump) or siphon the water onto the garden or the lawn..or otherwise reuse it.
My bigger botherinlaw uses a 20 liter drum on a cement block to flush his 6Hp honda.
my brother uses a bathtub or whatever he has vacant at the time to do is 15 honda.
Another mate uses the tub he washes his dog in.
One bloke I know tried flushing his 115 johnno in a spare wheelybin......the problem was he put it in gear and the prop shredded the back of the bin in about 5 seconds flat......
The young brotherinlaw tried a cheap plastic rubbish bin, but they wont stand the weight of the water for long, they split dumping the lot.
I have no confidence in the colapsable flushing bags or anything that does not have some strength about it.
If you recon you are using less running for the same time on your muffs..take this chalenge......put a tub under your outboard and see how much water you use.
remember you only have to cover the cavitation plate.
some of the bigger motors do have quite an exhaust output....so a bigger tub with higher sides might be the go.
you will need to do something about the tell tale or it will piss water everywhere and steadily pump the tank out.
thelittle merc, I simply clip a rag onto the cowling and the TT pisses into that and trains back into the drum.
My everrude I silpy slip a piece of hose over the tt pipe that sticks out and that runs back into the tub.
The smaller the motor is the more viable and easier tank flusing is.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
quite a lot of outboards particularly small ones never get a decent run, they may never run at WOT their whole life, so it is possible that they never warm up properly, the thermostat spends very little time wide open and they never get decent water flow thru them.
I am convinced that giving a motor a good run ( at least 20 minutes) at elivated revs is a good thing for them
Lots of people are under the misconception that thermostats are open or closed like a switch, and once open they stay open.
the truth is thermostats are constantly opening and closing in response to water tempearure and they vary in how far open they are.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
Anyone got a decent ph meter? Interesting to see if the water in a flush tub with all the disolves nitro and sulpher compound nasties in fuel ends up being acidic or something. Especiallly at idle where they don't run as clean Mates grass just won't cope with it so something changes in the water and it isn't salt as he used to do a first flush down and put it down the stormwater so most salt would go out with that. His prevous house nothing kiled the grass?
Noel - mystery to me as well and I think with a proper temp gauge on the block the anwser may be found as as soon as you go over certain temps there is a huge chance of deposits forming if the water drains out of the block when you stop. Some drain really fast and others like v6 johnos took a good few minutes We always idle for a few minutes while we check the drift or make sure the anchor is setting before we switch off to give the motor a chance to take any excess heat out of the block just like a turbo with turbo timer. Maybe rather than little drain holes they should have a drain plug only used at teh end of day after flushing so they actually hold water and it never dries so no crystalisation of scale can happen?
Splash, the adaptor for the flushing port on my 115 Suzuki is simply a snap-on hose connector (with a USA thread) purchased from Bunnings for about $3.
Bruce
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