Kevlacat vs Amm!!! Help me decide

[Noelm]

I do! but I have also owned lots of monos in various sizes, and have no doubt there is a lot of good monos around, but I do NOT think the dreaded NQ chop is the death knell for a cat!

[business class]

Does 1770 fall into that catagory? if so i did a trip to 1770 in a 2400 KC and to be honest and i dont own one it was definately an eye opener for what they can do when the going gets tough. was very impressed.

[julian1]

Does 1770 fall into that catagory? if so i did a trip to 1770 in a 2400 KC and to be honest and i dont own one it was definately an eye opener for what they can do when the going gets tough. was very impressed.

more impressed than a 233 ??

[Flex]

I've fished the whole entire QLD coast virtually, Cape york to Brisbane.

Worst chop I've ever seen is wind against tide at Stanage/shoalwater bay around the outer islands.

Anyone ever heard of the "ripples" at stanage? Strongest tides in QLD are along stanage/shoalwater bay area, with chop you wouldnt wish on your mother-in-law.

Mate took me for a special trip in his kevlacat one afternoon to see the funky chop. He even drove through it at 20knots just to scare the absolute crap out of me. We did get bumped around a heap I was amazed how fast we could go through it. I'f we'd been in a mono at that speed i rekon my arse woulda been pounded through the top of my head..lol

A question for some of you cat owners,

To give a scenario..

I've only really experienced cats in large chop. A trip out to Sykes reef in my mono boat one weekend, It blew up super feircly overnight. Coming back across open water i was faced with waves higher than my T-top. big ocean swells, I could only go about 12knots riding diagonally to the swell and got totally drowned.

At what point do you lose your confidence in a cat's ability to plane your way through big ocean? At what point when driving a cat do you have to slow down and come off the plane?...

[business class]

more impressed than a 233 ??

Havent been in a 233 so i cant really comment, But i highly doubt a 233 is going to keep up with the cat.

[julian1]

as there is no real discertion of when they actually start to plane (as they never really plane in theory) then there is no hump to get over so you can really just select your appropriate speed and go from there. in the really rough stuff this is where cats shine with the ability to just roll over the waves without having to go a certain speed to plane

[ozbee]

yep cat her arse was split unknowingly on the trip out yep in pissly 1.2 mtrs seas they went to sleep and woke up with water on the floor they tried by pulling the bungs and moving off to drain her . when they moved off the water was to heavy in the arse and down she went just like those ships went down in the war nose straight . the tip stayed up and that was all for them to hang on . not enough time for erprip or nothing ,note they stated there bilge pump didnt work . a hint a similar statement i made about the odd basher you get like mine and stuffing the bilge system. this boat was only 6 months old or a bit more . it has been retrieved i think after spending a week or so attached to the end of a reef . legals under way i have been told so leave it at that . kelvcat has always had the reputation has one of the best as we ll as the haines patriot but both as standard of the shelf are full of little bits falling off everywhere in these arse bashing chops , the simple fact is you pick your weather personally i would stick to glass whether cat or vee even though they make some dam good ally s now especially above the water line in shape and workmanship . downside is up here if used regularly in the nq chop you usually have a few weld patches from their thumping and twisting on stress points no mater who makes it.

[business class]

as there is no real discertion of when they actually start to plane (as they never really plane in theory) then there is no hump to get over so you can really just select your appropriate speed and go from there. in the really rough stuff this is where cats shine with the ability to just roll over the waves without having to go a certain speed to plane

if you go slow in a cat they will hit hard, you cant go 12 knots and expect the cat to ride as soft as if you were doing 20 knots, so you do need to get up and go. they are a good ride yes BUT the ocean still wins no matter what you have and a decent sea will slow them down dont you worry. Thats the only time a mono i think may win is at very slow revs and front on to a sea.

[business class]

[quote=ozbee;1255920]yep cat her arse was split unknowingly on the trip out yep in pissly 1.2 mtrs seas they went to sleep and woke up with water on the floor they tried by pulling the bungs and moving off to drain her . when they moved off the water was to heavy in the arse and down she went just like those ships went down in the war nose straight .

So many things could have happened for her to have a split arse. would be interesting to see the pic of where it split to try and see why or how. But there is one good thing out of that......... at least it didnt roll like the rest sorry couldnt help myself LOL.....

[Dean1]

Ozbee

I'll try again!

The mistake your all making with the side on the the NQ chop senario or any bad chop for that matter ( there all the same were you had wind against current!) Is that your assuming that one hull will be ontop of the wave and one hull will be in the trough, Right?? Wrong!!! This just doesn't happen, when your going across a chop , yes the lower hull will enter troughs but due to trim the hull on the high side will sink into the wave and cut through it thus keeping the boat far more level than you think!!

I've listened to this arguement you have possed before and quite frankly anyone who believes that the boat will heel badly because of the hulls riding on the top of one wave and the trough of the other has never been in a cat !

Cats dont behave like monos they dont skip across the surface they always have sections of there hulls deeper in the water than monos they are more a semi-displacement hull. a good example of this is when getting on the plane... a mono will bog down until it's got enough speed to jump out of the water and skim along the surface( eg at 12 knots it's quite bow up and bogged down and then it skips away and is doing 17 knots before you know it.) It very hard in most mono's to drive those mid range speed with out being on and off the throttle, it's either falling off the plane or skipping away! Cats on the other hand dont do this , the more throttle you give it the more it rises out of the water and you can drive 12 knots as easily as you can 14knots of 17 knots etc but the hulls never really fully leave the water and dont start skipping until your up in the mid thirties and even then due to the skinniness of the hulls one or the other will sink into a wave due the the weight of the boat thus keeping the boat level.

Forget this one hull ontop of the wave, one in the trough senario, i doesn't happen, the high side hull sinks into and cuts though that wave eliminating this percieved problem! Hope that made sense, maybe Fly1 or deano or NoelM could add to anything i've left out

Ian

Well said Ian that pretty well sums it up. I didnt have the energy to explain tonight after the day ive had

[Dean1]

yeah smithy i know we have talked about it before but just hear me out cause another lovely cat has gone down remember the ocean bottom and angle of wind usually a s/e blowing which is your swell with a ne easter also blowing which gives you a very short uneven chop totally random and also invisible that the bastards can come up under you . they are like a pinocle in that they may also have a large hole beside them . this i would guess what happened to this last 9 m cat which split her ass off. the bottom is arising bottom with shallow water going out a fair distance this may also have a affect. in two hours driving we go out very wide it is only the first half hour you get this problem .don't think its easy for deep vee ether you will get two or there chop rising hits from nowhere in a trip and boy do they hit .people only go out when the weather is10 to 15 but most will only go out 5 to 10 . you buy a 23 footer so you can go out in 10 to 15 safely but you do get caught if a s &ne easter is running over the top as well . if you get one of those hit s from nowhere they just smash your bilge pumps to bits breaking the holding bracket .i silicone them in which helps but you still get only 6 months out of them also the auto bail have a short life i run three pumps as security. have a look on the wind direction on bom and you will see many times the arrows in a tight direction going round in a circle. for those with open decks 5 to 10 is about it for them . hookers etc, just to many holes and rises and with the swell also coming into you it is so easy to put two feet of water in . yes you may have self drain decks but a new pair of undies are in order. there is a new 30 + footer being built for air sea rescue here with arrival some time later this year from kelvcat having twin 300 yammaies on her . which leaves a very nice size cat coming up for sale soon with twin 225 yammy four stroke on her . i was seriously thinking of selling the patriot and picking up her but not sure at the moment since the 9 mtr went down.

Ozbee mate your'e looking into this way too far I think you need to go for a good run in a ggod cat in miserable conditions. Cats dont just fall into these holes that form. Its in the trim and it becomes second nature, if you back the throttles right off at say 23kts whilst entering a hole well thats a totally different story but GOOD cat drivers know better than perform this behaviour

[tuff79]

Well looks like kc it is !!! We had a 5.7 tabs n got sick of my knees getting drivin up my ass so Value for money and quality of boat seems to b pushing for a second hand kc 2400 got 2 lined up! One is 04 the other is 05 with all the bells n whistles, one is 83 the other is 90 ! The 05 is has the newer pods witch they say is the better ride both have 140 zuki on them both under 220 hrs, decisions!!!! Kinda getting excited

[Dean1]

I've fished the whole entire QLD coast virtually, Cape york to Brisbane.

Worst chop I've ever seen is wind against tide at Stanage/shoalwater bay around the outer islands.

Anyone ever heard of the "ripples" at stanage? Strongest tides in QLD are along stanage/shoalwater bay area, with chop you wouldnt wish on your mother-in-law.

Mate took me for a special trip in his kevlacat one afternoon to see the funky chop. He even drove through it at 20knots just to scare the absolute crap out of me. We did get bumped around a heap I was amazed how fast we could go through it. I'f we'd been in a mono at that speed i rekon my arse woulda been pounded through the top of my head..lol

A question for some of you cat owners,

To give a scenario..

I've only really experienced cats in large chop. A trip out to Sykes reef in my mono boat one weekend, It blew up super feircly overnight. Coming back across open water i was faced with waves higher than my T-top. big ocean swells, I could only go about 12knots riding diagonally to the swell and got totally drowned.

At what point do you lose your confidence in a cat's ability to plane your way through big ocean? At what point when driving a cat do you have to slow down and come off the plane?...

Im catless at the moment but have owned a few. Dont worry ive been slowed up to 12kts at times, a 30knot westerly 2-3m swell will do it every time but its a pretty comfy 12 kts its just not worth jumping the swells too much airtime, you sort of just glide over the waves.

I recall approaching a 4m swell at Musgrave front on and we punched through the top of the wave like a submarine at only say 6kts that was an experience it broke over the canopy and filled the back of the boat with water but dissapeared instantly through the scupper. My mate still talks about that one! Should not have been out there that day!!

[finding_time]

I recall approaching a 4m swell at Musgrave front on and we punched through the top of the wave like a submarine at only say 6kts that was an experience it broke over the canopy and filled the back of the boat with water but dissapeared instantly through the scupper. My mate still talks about that one! Should not have been out there that day!!

That would have been the day i was out there with you wouldn't it Deano Dont remember seeing many other boats out that day, just 2 little kc's and there slightly insane owners and dumb ass crew!

[Flex]

The powercat that sunk up north was from a Pod coming away from the hull, Water then came up a non sealed cable tube back into each hull compartment.
More of a workman ship issue than structural