Snapper RIS. Please explain ?

[PinHead]

Fuel guage analogy:
If the fuel guage on your car is broken do you drive and hope or do you stop and re-fill the tank as it wont do any harm in the long run.
Fish stocks are the same i would rather some caution now and have more than i need later rather than none at all.
Seems amazingly simple

you KNOW how much fuel the tank takes and you Know how far you have driven..you KNOW these things.
We have closures based on people not knowing and taking guesses.

[johnlikes2fish]

The problem with the fishery is they dont know how much is there they can make estimates based on available data which they have and this indicates the population is under pressure, the main point I am getting from the study is increased or steady catches dont necessarily mean more fish, perhaps the rate of capture is increasing due to other factors which is implied in the study which gives an impression of a healthy fishery.
With regard to catch data it isnt as simple as counting the fish to see whats happening to a fishery the analysis will provide a better picture it will incorporate so much more than total number of fish.
The facts are that more rec fishos target snapper than ever before with great electronics more information, better equipment and tactics.
The fuel tank analogy: the gauge is there for a reason you check it every time you get in no one drives around for a week and guesses when to stop and refuel and yet people would want to do this with a vital resource. I would like to have a clear picture of the snapper fishery (and others) do we have enough to ensure that its viable in the long term and I would make a few sacrifices to make sure that is the case.
Are the current stats dodgy possibly, would i be willing to risk the ability to catch snapper in ten years instaed of being cautious.NO.

[PinHead]

jl2f...what you are stating is the precautinary pirnciple..if you live by that you would not do anything.

[johnlikes2fish]

I am making my assesment based on the data and analysis available not the anecdotal evidence provided by some people as well as conclusions provided by professionals and on worldwide decimation of fisheries over the last 50 years as well as the old chestnut of self interest over common good.
Some people like to roll the dice I prefer to make informed decisions that when the outcome is calamitous err on the side of caution.
If a snapper produces 150000 eggs at 4yrs of age if we can increase the number of snapper that spawn and the size of the snapper as each year the number of eggs increases by 150000 (quick research may be wrong sorry) through closures bag limits or whatever i can only see this being good for the fishery and everyone that uses it.

[PinHead]

well jl2f..great to see you won't ever fish for snapper again...or erring on the side of caution..not catching any fish at all.

[johnlikes2fish]

lol i get too much pleasure from catching fish and thats not what my posts say

[finding_time]

JL2F

Your also assuming that this closure is about a healthy snapper bio mass!!!!!!

Now if this was indeed about a healthy fishery,and snapper are in trouble wouldn't the closures be targeted to save them???

The Feb 13---March 31 closures will do sweet F...All for saving the snapper bio mass , if it was rerally about saving the snapper the closures would have been April 15 to May 30 or maybe August 15 to September 30!!

The fact that the closures are when they are show this is purely a political excercise period!!!! They want to been seen to be doing something without ruffling to many feathers, thats why there closing the fishery when people can chase other species!!! IT'S A TOTALLY PATHETIC GUTLESS SPINELESS POLITICAL DECISSION!!! And has nothing to do with helping the snapper bio mass, because as it stands it does nothing but make it appear like there trying to help, but i'll bet you anything, underneath this whole veneer...... it's all about green preferance.

Ian

Ps.

I could actually stomach this decission if the closure was over a spawning period!!! At least it would show there serious about fixing a problem, no matter how it effects the politically!!

[Gazza]

$90 and closing temporary fish arrivals (or did they do a HULK impersonation )

yep , that'd sell minimal ringside seats to CLEM7

[johnlikes2fish]

I cant comment on the correct period for closures is it before during or after spawning there are probably arguments for one or two of these times, but saying that if breeding age snapper make it through to next seasons spawning due to this closure it can only make a positive impact on snapper numbers.
The rules regarding fish sizes and numbers taken should be fluid within a time frame that reflects breeding cycles biomass age distribution etc etc that is management and it will have to happen to lots of fish species within rec and commercial arenas, anyone who thinks we should be allowed to continue to do as we please irrespective of the condition of the fishery is not being realistic.
Are the govenrment making this decision based on green preferences I dont really know but if they are why arent the people who voted green allowed a voice in this matter . Somewhere between pinheads i want to do what i want stance and ban fishing views of extreme green is where we should end up and that is management.

[finding_time]

JL2F

Snapper are easy to target during spawning, i reckon even Pinhead could bag on them when they congregate like they do at this time, to say that have a closure now will help next year run just doesn't pan out. At the moment the current is running hard ( always does at this time of year) the fish are spread out and are quite hard to target in any number. A closure now will have minimal impact and certainly not the 13% reduction in catch that they reckon it will!! ( just more dodgey figures ontop of already dodgy figures!! All they have done is divide the year up and and go 6.5 weeks out of 52 equals a 13 % saving of fish stock.... WTF !!! Any fisherman know all 6.5 week periods aren't equal, to bad the moron who told the Minster to say that crap wasn't a fisherman!!)

The whole approach stinks , and is full of it!! Look i dont fish for Snapper at this time of year ( better things to target) so this doesn't effect me at all, and wont effect many fishermen either ( probably the main reason for the closure now... gutless bastards!!) So why am i so pissed about it?? Because it stinks, it just doesn't add up on any level, it doesn't add up for anyone and most importantly if the Snapper are in trouble it's not going to help them one little bit!!!

[honda900]

DPI agree,

the closure will not regenerate stocks, nor is it supposed too.

The closure is aimed at ensuring the TAC will not be reached before the end of the season.

this closure was not timed during any spawning, although the spawning season is "variable" over some 6 months.

this was clearly spelled out by DPI at the vicci point meeting.

Regards
HOnda.

[Lovey80]

DPI agree,

the closure will not regenerate stocks, nor is it supposed too.

The closure is aimed at ensuring the TAC will not be reached before the end of the season.

this closure was not timed during any spawning, although the spawning season is "variable" over some 6 months.

this was clearly spelled out by DPI at the vicci point meeting.

Regards
HOnda.

Honda, mate we are on the same side but o have to pull you up here. That was not said at Viking point at all. Your confusing two different things. The current 'interim' 6 week closure and the 6 week closure as indicated in option 1 of the RIS.

Right now the 6 weeks is just an interim measure to 'do something now' before a final decision is made. This is for ALL sectors.

If option 1 is adopted I believe when the 6 week closure will occur so Recs only don't hit our TAC too early has not yet been decided - allegedly.

For me I would rather see a 40cm minimum size to achieve a 15% reduction in take rather than lock outs that (for 6 weeks) are designed to do the same thing. Many will simply not fish for those 6 weeks and a lot of little businesses will go broke.

JL2F, this fishery as a whole can NOT collapse! FQ have admitted this because let's face it they have to. When a fish begins breeding in the low to mid 20cms and we can't take them until they are 35+ there's a lot of chances to breed there. This whole exercise is about raising the Biomass because they think it is too low. I don't know about you but I am confident that at current harvest rates I will still be able to grab a few snaps in 10 years.

[PinHead]

I cant comment on the correct period for closures is it before during or after spawning there are probably arguments for one or two of these times, but saying that if breeding age snapper make it through to next seasons spawning due to this closure it can only make a positive impact on snapper numbers.
The rules regarding fish sizes and numbers taken should be fluid within a time frame that reflects breeding cycles biomass age distribution etc etc that is management and it will have to happen to lots of fish species within rec and commercial arenas, anyone who thinks we should be allowed to continue to do as we please irrespective of the condition of the fishery is not being realistic.
Are the govenrment making this decision based on green preferences I dont really know but if they are why arent the people who voted green allowed a voice in this matter . Somewhere between pinheads i want to do what i want stance and ban fishing views of extreme green is where we should end up and that is management.

I want to see what effect the bag and size limits have on the stocks..these have not been given sufficient time to see the results. Isn't that management ?
True management is having items like size and bag limits and spending the money policing these and that is not happening so what makes you think that any closures will make any difference if the funds are not available for policing of this ??

[TimiBoy]

Seems we're stuck with the 6 week closure.

I sat in on a couple of RRFF meetings. God knows why they invited an uneducated hack like me, but I was both greatly honoured and greatly excited when I watched the debate, and understood that the Scientists involved were really excited about the proposed catch card system, because it would finally give them World Class data, which they clearly acknowledge they don't have.

The Scientists would still like it, and would very much like it to be free. It's not them that have pushed "compulsory" or "$90". That's a political decision, from the Minister.

The Scientists aren't closure fans. That's a political decision, from the Minister. Closures weren't on the option list until late, and the proposal, from memory, came from "high up."

Consultation was, and is a joke according to Anna. They have a great laugh in private about how they manage to keep us sheep running around bleating wildly while she picked up the green preference deals she needed to stay in power. But she's achieved her objective, she's got her pension. She can buy a shack next to Climate Change Kevin's, and they can have a collective giggle about the rabid stupidity of the Australian Public.

Let the Government have it's bottle. Option "whatever" will not be enshrined in Legislation until next year, and by then there will have been an election. Given the current polling numbers, Anna Sly Lie Bligh has a snowballs chance in hell of getting back in. That means we will have the LNP, which, while they have been proven to be less than Media savvy (which I never thought was a criterion for good Government anyway) at least they know the meaning of "Shit, that's a Greenie, do the opposite of what he asks for and thank him for the advice" and they have a few folks who know how to manage a Business from real experience, not a Left Wing handbook.

So we will get a better response from the LNP. They have become clearly aware that Anglers are a force. They'll have little if anything to do with the Greens, because for the LNP they are electoral suicide. So let's just work on making sure the LNP understand where we're coming from, and getting them into the shack.

Then if they screw us, we can boot 'em out, but let's get 'em in and try them first, huh?

Cheers,

Tim

[Matt_Campbell]

I want to see what effect the bag and size limits have on the stocks..these have not been given sufficient time to see the results. Isn't that management ?
True management is having items like size and bag limits and spending the money policing these and that is not happening so what makes you think that any closures will make any difference if the funds are not available for policing of this ??

It has been 9 years!