DIY: Transom Repair Haines 1950R

[mustang5]

Hey guys, following on from:

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=169699

My transom is slop, too much movement and the motor bolts have started going through the inner casing, and cracks are appearing along the splashwell.

I am looking at tackling this myself, with the help of some mates who have fibreglassing experience, when it comes to that. So basically that part is covered.

The boat is a 1990 Haines 1950R signature, and the transom looks a lot different to all the DIY guides that I can find (on the net, magazines and boat building books).

I am looking to do this from the outside, but I am not sure where to cut as it is a different shaped transom than the ones seen in the vast amount of tutorials. From looking at it, my current plan of attack is to cut the outer skin for the width of the splashwell, but leaving a lip to slide the new ply in from the top. The transom style of the haines is different, with angles going everywhere! It doesnt make it easy hehe. But wheres the fun and satisfaction in easy

Basically below the splash well is as hard as a rock, but above the splash well there is flex, cracking and shearing as seen in the pics.

I am unsure as to use polyester or epoxy resin. Some input here would be much appreciated

I expect to not have to touch the inner skin, but that all depends on the amount of rot in the existing ply.

I will be taking plenty of pics of this project, set to start this weekend

Any help, tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I will start off with some pics of the boat "as-is".

Thanks for reading and I hope over the coming weeks I share some interesting, and hopefully trouble free repairs!

Cheers

[FishHunter]

I would be doing that from the inside, you will need to repair the inside of the motorwell anyway and it looks like it will be a lot easier to work with than the outside.

This is what mine looked like after the motor well and rear floor were cut out.




Motorwell refitted you can see fibreglass strip where it was cut.

[odes20]

DIY: Transom Repair Haines 1950R
Hey guys, following on from:

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=169699

My transom is slop, too much movement and the motor bolts have started going through the inner casing, and cracks are appearing along the splashwell.

I am looking at tackling this myself, with the help of some mates who have fibreglassing experience, when it comes to that. So basically that part is covered.

The boat is a 1990 Haines 1950R signature, and the transom looks a lot different to all the DIY guides that I can find (on the net, magazines and boat building books).

I am looking to do this from the outside, but I am not sure where to cut as it is a different shaped transom than the ones seen in the vast amount of tutorials. From looking at it, my current plan of attack is to cut the outer skin for the width of the splashwell, but leaving a lip to slide the new ply in from the top. The transom style of the haines is different, with angles going everywhere! It doesnt make it easy hehe. But wheres the fun and satisfaction in easy

Basically below the splash well is as hard as a rock, but above the splash well there is flex, cracking and shearing as seen in the pics.

I am unsure as to use polyester or epoxy resin. Some input here would be much appreciated

I expect to not have to touch the inner skin, but that all depends on the amount of rot in the existing ply.

I will be taking plenty of pics of this project, set to start this weekend

Any help, tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I will start off with some pics of the boat "as-is".

Thanks for reading and I hope over the coming weeks I share some interesting, and hopefully trouble free repairs!

From your pics its stuffed and certainly needs repair

The differences between epoxy and polyester is 1. Epoxy is stronger. 2. Epoxy is more expensive. 3. You can get good adhesion putting epoxy over your existing boat polester but you cant polyester over epoxy.

As far as your rear cut out just make sure you grind and dish out your joint later and reglass starting with thin strips of matting in the bottom of the dished out joint and gradually widen them out to the width and depth of your joint. It should be about 120 mm in the end . The join is basically where the cut out ocurred on your transom to remove the outer skin. If you check out the thread you can see this groung out joint or tapered out join on both my transom and svranjic's as well.
But don't make the mistake he made of making your cut too far in from the edge as you cant get the old timber out . If you work on about 60 - 70 mm from each edge it works just fine.
If I can find a boat your shape around here I will have a look at it as I understand the issues you noted about all the angles. But tell me, is the ounly part to replace the rear flat panel which the motor is bolted to??

Cheers
John

[Jarrah Jack]

G'day John.............I guess thats what he' s trying to work through. If its just the rear flat part then the job could be much simpler. It would depend whether there is any rotten or timber at all for that matter in those return angles.

If there is timber in the return angles then there would be a join where they meet the flat part.( I'd be very surprised if they had laminated a number of sheats of ply to form those angles) My money would be on just doing the flat part from the outside and reinforceing where the rear part of the splashwell is showing stress.

It would be good if Mustang5 could talk to someone with experience with these particular boats or even to ring Haines sig as there maybe someone at the factory who could help with this as well.

He could do it from either the inside or outside and get a good job but I think that, with that odd transom arrangement, that one of them ends up being much easier than the other. That splashwell certainly adds a lot of strength to the overall transom.

Hope that helps a bit Mustang5.

[Argle]

I agree with what Jarrah Jack reckons, I would try giving The Haines group a call they may or may not be able to help but could possibly point you in the direction of someone who can.

Cheers
Scott

[mustang5]

@Fishhunter, I really am not keen to take out the motorwell. I know it would probably make it easier but aesthetically I really don’t want to mess around with the upper deck area as its only been freshly painted not long ago, and I am not that great with painting/sanding or glassing for that matter. The rear skin needs painting, along with the underside of the boat hence why externally is the plan, and its a much easier way for me to learn as I go, I think.

@Odes

Yeah there is just too much flex, cracking and what not, definitely fix time. It flexes around the joint where the horizontal section of the splash well meets the transom. I have drilled holes below this section to inspect and its solid, feels and sounds different when hitting it. But obviously wont really know until the skin is off.

Ok well moneys not an issue when it’s a stronger material purchased I think. Nothing better than peace of mind. Epoxy seems to be the way to go. Any specific brands you recommend?? A good list of materials you used would be very helpful J

Ok so the plan is: (Question marks are where I still require some guidance J )

1. Cut external skin to the width of the splash well, and to the depth of the full transom, but leave the 60-70mm edging to both sides, and the bottom of the hull. I plan to include the top capping in this cut.

• Remove all plywood until I reach the outer parts of the fibreglass, thus leaving a lip of 60-70mm??
• Use cardboard to get shape of required ply replacement
• Cut out new ply. I will be using 2 connected sheets, but thickness I am yet to determine until I remove outer skin and measure.
• Connect two sheets using epoxy, with fibreglass matting between the two sheets. (What fibreglass matting is best for this?)
• Cover the entire ply setup in just epoxy?? (Or wait until installed and ready to glass so its “tacky?”) Drill or clamp the sheets together and allow to sit for a day or two??
• Feed new ply from the top.
• Epoxy the cutout, outer skin to the new ply.
• Fibreglass over the rear of the cutout, so long as there is 120mm coverage over the joint??? (Do I need to glass the complete rear section in order to not have a high bit around the joint?? Or is glassing, letting it cure, and then sanding it down level adequate?? Also, is it worth having a larger gap between cutout rear piece and the lip for bonding reasons?? AND, will I need to sand the areas where I plan to fibreglass connect the areas??)
• Fibreglass the new transom capping and throw out the aluminium capping.
• Paint and repair cracked paint in splashwell.
• Let sit and cure (How long?). Test strength for peace of mind.
• Drill bolt holes and re-install motor.

Please let me know if I am looking in the wrong direction here.

Appreciate all the help Gents J I am actually looking forward to this.

[mustang5]

G'day John.............I guess thats what he' s trying to work through. If its just the rear flat part then the job could be much simpler. It would depend whether there is any rotten or timber at all for that matter in those return angles.

If there is timber in the return angles then there would be a join where they meet the flat part.( I'd be very surprised if they had laminated a number of sheats of ply to form those angles) My money would be on just doing the flat part from the outside and reinforceing where the rear part of the splashwell is showing stress.

It would be good if Mustang5 could talk to someone with experience with these particular boats or even to ring Haines sig as there maybe someone at the factory who could help with this as well.

He could do it from either the inside or outside and get a good job but I think that, with that odd transom arrangement, that one of them ends up being much easier than the other. That splashwell certainly adds a lot of strength to the overall transom.

Hope that helps a bit Mustang5.

Hi mate, I have already called the Haines group and are sending them the pics and details as we speak They are very helpful indeed!! Amazing the enthusiasm they share even for a 20yo boat!

[odes20]

OK. I have highlighted in red my responses to your points.

Jarra Jacks question is important. Is there only timber in the flat rear transom section where you bolt motor on or is there timber in those side angles sections as well?.

The following are my suggestions re your plan of attack.



Cut external skin to the width of the splash well, and to the depth of the full transom, but leave the 60-70mm edging to both sides, and the bottom of the hull. I plan to include the top capping in this cut.

• Remove all plywood until I reach the outer parts of the fibreglass, thus leaving a lip of 60-70mm??
• Use cardboard to get shape of required ply replacement
• Cut out new ply. I will be using 2 connected sheets, but thickness I am yet to determine until I remove outer skin and measure.
• Connect two sheets using epoxy, with fibreglass matting between the two sheets. (What fibreglass matting is best for this?)

I used Epiglass HT 9000 but there are others. Be careful to read the instructions carefully, especially about how much to mix at each time but more especially keeping the mixed epoxy in a shallow pan so it does not go off on you.

• First coat them with epoxy and let dry Then I would epoxy them together with 450 chopped strand as you insert them into the back of the boat. This allows you to manouvvre the sheets more easily. Insert the first sheet and pull it in tight to the backing skin with stainless screws from the inside skin, then insert the second and screw in onto the first installed sheet. Use Plenty of epoxy and plenty of matting strips around all the edges so the sheets are bedded in wet full matting. Pre drill the holes in the skin so when you pull the screws up tight they don't bind in the skin . Same with screwing on the outer skin later on.
• Cover the entire ply setup in just epoxy?? (Or wait until installed and ready to glass so its “tacky?”) Drill or clamp the sheets together and allow to sit for a day or two??
• Feed new ply from the top.
• Epoxy the cutout, outer skin to the new ply. Once again do this with 450 matting and screw and clamp the panel onto the ply
• Fibreglass over the rear of the cutout, so long as there is 120mm coverage over the joint???Yes but make sure you grind /and dish it ourt so when you sand it flat later you have a good tapered thickness of the join (Do I need to glass the complete rear section in order to not have a high bit around the joint??The answer to this is my last point. If you go thru the thread I recommended you will see this done on my job. Or is glassing, letting it cure, and then sanding it down level adequate?? Also, is it worth having a larger gap between cutout rear piece and the lip for bonding reasons?? AND, will I need to sand the areas where I plan to fibreglass connect the areas??)All areas you glass will need the gelcoat sanded off properly to get proper adhesion. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.
• Fibreglass the new transom capping and throw out the aluminium capping. I suggest you glass from the outside of the transom and right down into the splashwell and build up good strength inside where there is damage as this will both repair the damage around your bolts and any other damage, it will increase the strength and give you a nice fully sealed cap/top on your transom. This is not hard to do at all, you just need to round the edges on the top of the transom before you lay glass over it, in fact all external corners when glassing need rounding so the matting can lay down properly.
• Paint and repair cracked paint in splashwell.
• Let sit and cure (How long?). Test strength for peace of mind. 1 Week should be plenty but read Epoxy specs on this issue.
• Drill bolt holes and re-install motor. Borrow a template tool from a local Boat shop , (they may require a bond) but this ensures you end up drilling the holes in perfect position to each other and at the right angle! When you see one of these templates you will know exactly what I mean.

Cheers
John

[mustang5]

Ok, thank you heaps for the excellent info. It is helping tremendously!

I will drill a test hole at home and see whats beneath the outer edges.

Ok one question, and please excuse my inadequacies, but I am struggling to understand what you mean by grinding and dishing it out?? Just to confirm, do you mean once the cutout is epoxied back to the ply, do I then go along with a grinder and cut in a section along the join so that fibreglass seats in there?? To what width and depth is reccommended?

Will advise on the outcome of the side return edges.

Cheers

[wayno60]

mussy,
This is a bit of a read but plenty of good step by step hints and good pics of what is involved.
http://www.reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66881

cheers

[odes20]

If you have a look at this stage on mine you can see the rebuilt join. I had lifted my transom height as well thus the ply you can see. I ten glassed right over into the well as you can see. Also the new glass went over the top of the transom and right down nearly to the bottom of the splash well. My Suzuki 175 4 srtoke is hanging on it now. been done 2 years. Not the slightest problem anywhere. First pic is after epoxy primer went on.

[odes20]

G'day John.............I guess thats what he' s trying to work through. If its just the rear flat part then the job could be much simpler. It would depend whether there is any rotten or timber at all for that matter in those return angles.

If there is timber in the return angles then there would be a join where they meet the flat part.( I'd be very surprised if they had laminated a number of sheats of ply to form those angles) My money would be on just doing the flat part from the outside and reinforceing where the rear part of the splashwell is showing stress.

It would be good if Mustang5 could talk to someone with experience with these particular boats or even to ring Haines sig as there maybe someone at the factory who could help with this as well.

He could do it from either the inside or outside and get a good job but I think that, with that odd transom arrangement, that one of them ends up being much easier than the other. That splashwell certainly adds a lot of strength to the overall transom.

Hope that helps a bit Mustang5.

Yep I think that if only the rear section of the boat is a ply transom, and the side angle panels are just glass it will be a fairly straight foward task
Cheers
John

[odes20]

Ok, thank you heaps for the excellent info. It is helping tremendously!

I will drill a test hole at home and see whats beneath the outer edges.

Ok one question, and please excuse my inadequacies, but I am struggling to understand what you mean by grinding and dishing it out?? Just to confirm, do you mean once the cutout is epoxied back to the ply, do I then go along with a grinder and cut in a section along the join so that fibreglass seats in there?? To what width and depth is reccommended?

Will advise on the outcome of the side return edges.

Cheers

You should not need to drill those panels. If you look at them from inside the boat wont you be able to see if they have glassed over ply in them like the Panel your motor is bolted to??
If you study my next post picture you can see the join around the outside is glassed up to about 120mm width. What I mean by dishing out is grinding out the join section from the centre of it which is your previous cut line. Grind dowm to perhaps nealy hitting the ply in the centre and then gradually taper the thickness out to the edges of your join area. This means you can layer your join up to a good thickness and gradually taper the thickness out till it is flush with the outer skin. .What this means is your join is not a great big protruding thickness on the panel. Better to glass it up a bit over flush and sand it down flush with a belt sander later. Have I helped with this explanation?

John

[oldie]

Its a fun ITCHY job to tackle but worth it in the end when you have a new solid transom plus if you decide to sell you'll be confident in the structural condition of the Transom.

G-Clamps will be your best friend you cannot have enough clamps to get a good bond, i personally cut my top deck and motor well off and did it from inside as was told the strongest way to do it. I used polyester resin as surfing all my life i had repaired plenty of boards and knew about the product and chop matting.

I recommend everyone should try the transom and floor once in their lives but i certainly wont do it again, i got all my info from this site and i cannot thank everyone enough for the helpful hints was over 4 years ago, i sold the boat but made some great profit out of it as i bought it cheap and did the whole thing up then put a newer motor on it,

good luck mustang5 plenty of fun and beers ahead

[svranjic]

Hey mate

Your transom job is different because the transom is obviously not one flat piece like the examples shown above. Therefore you need to work out where there is timber and how it has been shaped. After you have done this you can work out where to cut.

Have you got any better photos of the rear of your transom, the ones in your link are too dark to see anything. If you can put some photos up I cant get a better idea of what it looks like.

Looking at your splashwell it also occured to me that the inner part of the well will need glassing and repairing, you can see that from the cracks. This may mean doing it from the outside is also an advantage.

HOWEVER

I know a lot of ppl wont like me saying this, but if the shape of the rear of that transom is going to be a total pain in the ass to replicate, consideration of doing it from the inside is worthwhile. I know you dont wanna cut the splashwell, but there is a lot of finish work involved in cutting from the rear. You need to weight this up.

Post up some more pics so we can go from there