Fuel Anyone Confirm Please

[supa29]

I had my motors serviced today by mobile mechanic up the sunny coast by the first true knowledgable mechanic i have seen. he explained every thing he was doing and showed me the findings every step off the way. thanks smithy for the tip Dwyane is the main man for motors.

but this is not the reason for the thread, he explained to me the unleaded fuel cycle, i will endeavor to explain what he said to me:

1. E10 full of ethanol and is not recommended for boat motors.
2. normal unleaded recommended for boats.
3. Premium Unleaded contains amounts of ethanol to meet octane levels.
4. Top Shelf premium has higher levels of ethanol to meet the high octane level needed for sale.

So his advise was to only use normal unleaded fuel not the premium or top shelf stuff as they both contain ethonal.

SO HERES THE PROBLEM COULD SOMEONE IN THE KNOW LET ME KNOW WHAT BLOODY FUEL IS THE BEST FOR MARINE ENGINES CAUSE I AM SICK OFF GETTINTHE CARBYS CLEANED EVERY SIX MONTHS FROM WATER AND VARNISHING FROM ETHONAL.

SO BOATIES BEWARE OF PREMIUM IT WILL BITE.

SUPA...........

[PinHead]

I do not think your mechanic is well up on the facts unfortunately.

If you think fuel with ethanol is causing you problems why do you continue to put ethanol fuel in your boat?

[FishHunter]

I do not think your mechanic is well up on the facts unfortunately.

If you think fuel with ethanol is causing you problems why do you continue to put ethanol fuel in your boat?

I agree, to my knowledge no premium fuel contains Ethanol and not ALL 91 octane contains Ethanol

[culbara]

Mate buy your fuel from the busiest servo yo can find as then it is likely to be cleaner and i use a fue additive not all the time help keep your carby clean it adds expense i know but it makes it work

[rowanda]

no need for additives if you buy good fuel. Buy from a big outlet with good turnover as some have suggested. Not all 91 (normal unleaded) contains ethanol, but it soon will. Some premiums from smaller independent companies contain ethanol, but the major brands do not have ethanol in their premium. Yes ethanol blended fuels aren't reccommended for boats due to what happens when they mix with water. Premium is fine to use in your boat. I personally use BP 95 or 98 and haven't had a drama and have never used an additive.
I hope your mechanic is better with his outboard knowledge than he is with his fuel knowledge.

[bigjimg]

I use 95ron premium,sometimes 98.Put some 98 in the Prado to see if any different and am definately getting better economy.I reckon enthanol in the premium is somewhat misguided.The boat is coming up to 30mths and have not had any fuel issues,being water or separation or anything for that matter.Maybe your oil is the problem.What do you think?Jim.

[dnej]

There is no ethanol in the premium fuels, to my knowledge,and if there was, it has to be labelled accordingly.
Varnish only builds up, when you leave fuel in your carbies, over a long period.

Give Shell a call, and get onto their technical advice section. They will explain it.The formula in Melbourne, is different for say Cairns.
David

[oldboot]

This "high octain fuel is bad for you motor" thing is a very common belief among small engine mechanics.

And Some of the US manuals, have this littel spiel about it......their premise is that since the discontuation of lead, they have to put "other things" in fuel that may deposit as varnish and carbon.

It seem to me this little spiel is from very early in the whole unleaded experience when all sorts of people were very anti unleaded.

these days most of the premium unleaded fuels are making a big deal about "cleaning your motor as you drive" or some such....

Varnish......is a portion of some oil product that has oxidised and turned into a resin........this points to stale fuel.

it is very true that moden unleaded has a very short shelf life perticularly when it is not in well sealed full containers......you carby is very much not sealed.

A mate of mine repairs an modifies vintage and racing motor bikes and parts there of for a living and owns quite a few himself.

he testifies that the fuel in carbies of bikes can go if badly in a couple of weeks to a month...the fuel in the tank fairs a little better it should last in practice a couple of months tops.

I wont go out with fuel over 4 weeks old in the tank.

So the solution is to use the boat more regularly and stick any stale fuel thru the mower.

tell your MRS......you must take the boat out at least every two weeks

cheers

[lee8sec]

http://www.boaters.org.au/Documents/...S%20032010.pdf

See below for nsw, cant see other states will be much differant. Leigh

ETHANOL AND OUTBOARD MOTORS – a refresher on the facts.

Ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for use in outboard motors for a number of
reasons which BOA has gone through in some detail in previous BOA newsletter articles
(refer December 2008 and March 2009 issues). Even NSW Maritime has posted warnings in
this regard. But because NSW legislation concerning the mandatory blending of ethanol is
starting to kick in, some boaters are expressing concern that ethanol free fuels may soon not
be available. To dispel those concerns, the following points might be useful.
1. NSW legislation requires that the minimum volumetric ethanol content of all petrol sold
in NSW is 4% and is to rise to 6% by 2011.
2. NSW legislation requires that the minimum ethanol content of all regular unleaded petrol
sold in NSW after 1 July 2011 is to be 10%
3. Higher octane grade petrol is not required to contain ethanol – provide of course that the
global volumetric targets are being met.
4. An exception to the minimum ethanol content requirement applicable to all regular
unleaded petrol, however, will apply to the sale of petrol for the fuelling of boats.
5. Federal legislation (a) limits the maximum amount of ethanol in any grade of petrol to
10% and (b) requires that all ethanol blends be labelled to indicate what percentage of
ethanol it contains – E5 (5% ethanol) or E10 (10% ethanol) for example.
So these are the rules. Going forward, there are going to be two ways to purchase ethanol free
petrol.
1. Purchase your petrol from a marina that is permitted, under the NSW legislation, to
purchase and sell ethanol free regular unleaded petrol. But, just to be sure, ask and look
out for an “E” label.
2. Take the easiest way out and simply buy a higher octane fuel that is not required to and
probably won’t (watch out for any E labelling) contain ethanol. It might be a touch more
expensive and it won’t make your motor run any faster but it will eliminate the very
serious problems that could be encountered if an ethanol blend is used.

[PADDLES]

hi supa, there's usually a lot of passion and not necessarily fact when you talk to most boaties about ethanol in fuel.

the facts as I (think?) I know them are:

- ethanol content MUST be labelled at the bowser BY LAW
- some premium fuels will use ethanol to raise the RON (but will be labelled accordingly)
- there can also be other "fillers" in premium fuel like toluene etc.
- new 2s and 4s engines are usually designed for the USA market which legislates the use of ethanol in engines
- ethanol is bad for FRP fuel tanks and some rubber fittings/diaphrams in older motors
- ethanol will attract moisture and seperate from the fuel if there is water in your tank
- if the ethanol seperates and becomes mixed with the water it will generally burn straight through a 4s engine at higher throttle settings but the engine will run like krap at low throttle settings
- it is generally accepted that if the ethanol seperates from premixed 2s fuel that there may be very little (none?) oil in the water/ethanol mix. this may not be as bad of an issue for oil injected engines.

All of that being said, I still try to avoid ethanol blended fuels for boating use. But if you can't, try to not leave fuel sitting in you tank for any period and install the biggest filter/water trap you can get so you can try and drain it off if it does attract water and seperate. Caltex seem to be one of very few distributors that stock straight unleaded with no ethanol.

As for what to use, I reckon that standard unleaded is just fine for all unmodified engines, that's what they are designed to use.

Another useless fact is that OMC fuel conditioner used to be just straight isopropyl alcohol, obviously it was used in much smaller percentages than the current crop of ethanol blends.

Fuel always sparks great debate with boaties.

[Flex]

Alll good info.

I know there is a slight difference between BP95 and the other stuff like Vortex 98 etc.

95 is actually achieved by refining the oil up to this standard, it has no added extras to boost its octane lvls.

98 on the other hand has added ingredients which increase its octane levels.
Im not 100% sure if those addidtives have issues with engines, I vaguely remember reading in a magazine once the 98 stuff can cause issues, but I cant remember where. or what problems it causes

[PADDLES]

G'day Flex, there used to be a bit of talk in bike circles about the Shell premium not mixing well with oil for pre-mixed 2s bikes, dunno whether this was an old wives tale or not.

[Fishbait]

Got myself a new fuel filter the other day, it has a clear bulb under the filter so you can see the fuel in the filter (and hopefully not, any water). It has a small tap on the bottom so you can drain anything out if you have too. At least I can see what is in the filter i suppose. From what i understand also, there is no ethanol in the premium fuels unless it is advertised and labelled as such. Ah, the great fuel debate continues.

[marty666]

It is interesting how now new engines can take e10 fuel according to the engine makers. the big thing is with separation as a boatie you dont fuel up as much as in your car so the chances of separation are greater. I personally use hi octane fuel in my brand new boat and add stabil to the fuel as well, prevents the fuel oxidization process or going stale if you like. amd like someone said earlier use the boat more often

[supa29]

i know the pain of bad fuel but i havent brought normal or e10 unleaded fuel for 12 months only premium and ultimate from busy BPon sunny coast, but i just cleaned my tank out and found water glubs in tanks, only about a cup in 150 litres but that is enough i suppose. i agree with you all but with carbs it is annoying to have them run like a bitch but i agree it seems to be the length of time the boat sits still. bring on summer and win lotto so i can go when i want.

kel......