Fuel Anyone Confirm Please

[Crocodile]

I have asked Shell(because my local is a Shell) if V-Power has ethanol and they say no.
There are only two refineries in Brisbane, Caltex and BP, I assume that they make the batches for Shell as well. Can we be sure that BP can be bothered making a different batch for Shell?
Also this wishful thinking about labelling of ethanol is too silly for words.
Who is policing what is sold and how many inspectors are there for the whole of QLD, I asked the Premier's Dept and they didn't know. I have zero confidence in the govt's ability to ensure that we get what we think we a buying.
Personally I am not happy about subsidising cane farmers by ruining my engines.

[Steeler]

It is interesting how now new engines can take e10 fuel according to the engine makers. the big thing is with separation as a boatie you dont fuel up as much as in your car so the chances of separation are greater. I personally use hi octane fuel in my brand new boat and add stabil to the fuel as well, prevents the fuel oxidization process or going stale if you like. amd like someone said earlier use the boat more often

Stabil,she is good stuff.

Lot a scary alarmist stuff gets posted about ethanol fuels but the golden rule is keep it fresh.

[Spaniard_King]

The word I have been getting is steer clear of BP fuels.. they don't know how much ethanol they have

I am hearing that caltex 95 is the most reliable fuel for outboard engines.. has the least moisture related issues and reasonable longevity in the tank

The modern day EFI outboard has knock sensors which will retard the timing on poor fuel reducing performance significantly but not eliminating the chance of fuel related damage.

As always fresh fuel and minimun 91 octane to get the best performace from an EFI outboard.

[tigermullet]

I don't have to worry about different octane levels of petrol - ethanol added or not. Over the last six years the Tohatsu has used all blends of petrol and never once given a problem. Tohatsus are tough! Just ditch the mongrel resistor type spark plugs and all will be well.

[oldboot]

If the fuel is fresh and has not been contaminated with water, there should be no issues running ethanol fuel in almost any internal combustion motor.

The problem arrises with stale fuel and water contamination......both are issues with non ethanol blended fuels too...... but withe ethanol in the fuel the matter gets much worse.


Regardless........your outboard will be much happier on fresh fuel.

Oh...regardles of how funky the filter you have.......stale fuel is stale fuel.

cheers

[Taylor2]

Supa29, my outboard mech told me to just use unleaded...he also said theres no need to use premium.... unless....I haven't had it out for a while, and then top it up with premium...apparently the enthanol evaporates...hes got a pretty decent reputation so I'd say hes right...its a honda 4 stroke btw.

[supa29]

I do not think your mechanic is well up on the facts unfortunately.

If you think fuel with ethanol is causing you problems why do you continue to put ethanol fuel in your boat?

i would agree with you but he has come through the Yamaha service agents and been running his own business for a little while and really i doubt he has any reason to bullshit to anyone he gets work regardless of fuel type.
my expertise is in construction not outboard mechanics or repair, so when i get told from a professional i take his advise but everyone can make thier own mind up about it, i am just leting people know what was said. and in reading some of the other comments coming in i would say he wasnt far of the mark.

thanks keep the info coming on the fuel.

thanks kel,............

[Member101]

Easiest way to determine what fuel you should be using, Contact the manufacturer. My father in laws late model (2008 i think) Suzuki 115 4st recommends ONLY premium unleaded. whereas my 2000 model yammie 40 2st says only use regular unleaded.



Cheers
Steve

[nigelr]

Tojo manual for my new M90A 2 stroke says 91 minimum, warns that warranty is made void by using fuel with over 10% ethanol, and advises that ethanol may cause serious engine damage.
So it will be 95 for me, as the dealer advised.
Cheers.

[oldboot]

Supa29, my outboard mech told me to just use unleaded...he also said theres no need to use premium.... unless....I haven't had it out for a while, and then top it up with premium...apparently the enthanol evaporates...hes got a pretty decent reputation so I'd say hes right...its a honda 4 stroke btw.

I doubt very much the ethano evaporating either way would be an issue.....there would be various other solvent fractions in the fuel that would evaporate under similar conditions as the alcahol.

the issue with all modern pertol type fuels is that various parts of the fuel degrade over time and exposure to air......those parts of the fuel oxidise, polermerise and bugerise, the result is the fuel does not perform well and leaves excessive deposits behind in the fuel system.

the major problem with ethanol is that it is hydroscopic.....atracts moisture.....the etanol combines with and chemicaly bonds with that moisture....this causes may problems.

If you have seen a fuel tank that has regularly been used with fuel and left to sit with old fuel in it......you will see a build up of what looks very much like varnish.

I cleaned out the fuel tank that came with my young brotherinlaws boat......there was so much varnish on the fuel guage that it would not move, and it come off the bottom in flakes.....this tank would have used old leaded standard most of its life.

So the whole varnish thing can not be attributed to unleaded.

when unleaded fuel gets properly stale.....it wont even start a motor..and is smells mustly rather than sharp and fruity.
But long before it gets that bad, the octain rating will suffer and it will be depositing stuff in your fuel system.

there is no substuitute for fresh fuel.

cheers

[tunaticer]

I just do not get the whole ethanol addition thing......at 10% in the fuel you still are using the same amount of petrol driving around, you just consume about 10% more blended fuels. Where is the help to the environment when you still burn the same amount of hydrocarbons plus the extra ethanol as well for the same distances?

[PinHead]

i would agree with you but he has come through the Yamaha service agents and been running his own business for a little while and really i doubt he has any reason to bullshit to anyone he gets work regardless of fuel type.
my expertise is in construction not outboard mechanics or repair, so when i get told from a professional i take his advise but everyone can make thier own mind up about it, i am just leting people know what was said. and in reading some of the other comments coming in i would say he wasnt far of the mark.

thanks keep the info coming on the fuel.

thanks kel,............

Kel,

I reckon he is way off the mark..he may not BSing but just stating what he believes however:

1. E10 full of ethanol and is not recommended for boat motors. 10% hence why it is called E10
2. normal unleaded recommended for boats. not true either..my manual for the lil motor I have states permium unleaded.
3. Premium Unleaded contains amounts of ethanol to meet octane levels. once again not true..just do a google search on octane ratings and read some info there.
4. Top Shelf premium has higher levels of ethanol to meet the high octane level needed for sale. ditto 3

If a motor is set up as a complete package then there are no problems using fuel with ethanol in it. I think Brazil runs on E85.
Even the V8's at Bathurst are running something like E85 in those things.

Alas, a lot of our vehicles and boats are not set up for it.

PLUS: what others have said..under Qld law, all bowsers must show if the fuel you are pumping has ethanol in it.

[peterbo3]

Here you go.

[Dignity]

Kel,

I reckon he is way off the mark..he may not BSing but just stating what he believes however:

1. E10 full of ethanol and is not recommended for boat motors. 10% hence why it is called E10
2. normal unleaded recommended for boats. not true either..my manual for the lil motor I have states permium unleaded.
3. Premium Unleaded contains amounts of ethanol to meet octane levels. once again not true..just do a google search on octane ratings and read some info there.
4. Top Shelf premium has higher levels of ethanol to meet the high octane level needed for sale. ditto 3

If a motor is set up as a complete package then there are no problems using fuel with ethanol in it. I think Brazil runs on E85.
Even the V8's at Bathurst are running something like E85 in those things.

Alas, a lot of our vehicles and boats are not set up for it.

PLUS: what others have said..under Qld law, all bowsers must show if the fuel you are pumping has ethanol in it.

This is how it should be but in real life does it always occur this way, I hope so as there doesn't appear to be any media reports of doctored fuel anymore (I could be niaive).

Also Paddles mentioned that " there can also be other "fillers" in premium fuel like toluene etc.", I understood that this was an absolute NO-NO as toluene is extremely carcinogenic and was banned from all fuels.

I recall about 24 months ago that BP started changing over all of their pumps with only very small stickers that were easy to miss and I couldn't find a BP servo that had any regular unleaded without ethanol. I only noticed this at the time as the company car had to be filled at BP and I kept an eye at due to debates about ethanol. This may have changed but "once bitten twice shy" and I have never been back to a BP.

There doesn't appear to be much discussion on the possible effects of ethanol on some plastics/rubber as I thought this was the main reason people steered clear of ethanol (or so I thought).

The argument of stale fuel really belongs to a separate thread. I recall when there was changes to diesel some years ago there was similar problem but I am starting to suffer from old timers disease and don't recall the exact circumstances.

[Mike Delisser]

Below is info from Wiki on ethanol in fuel

"Australia
Main article: Ethanol fuel in Australia
Due to ethanol's greater stability under pressure it is used by Shell in their 100 octane fuel. Similarly IFS add 10% ethanol to their 91 octane fuel, label it premium fuel and sell it more cheaply than regular unleaded. This is converse to the general practice of adding ethanol to a lesser quality fuel to bring its octane rating up to 91."





Go well, go shell?