Snapper FORUM 26 August 2010

[Scott Mitchell]

FYI - Team

Hi Scott

You are invited to attend a forum to be held by Fisheries Queensland to discuss the science behind the Queensland Government’s assessment of Queensland’s snapper stock.

With recent studies indicating that snapper stock is overfished, we need anglers to be fully informed about the stock status before consultation is undertaken later this year on potential changes to the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery.

By world standards, Queensland is recognised as having well-managed, sustainable fisheries. In fact, snapper is the only species of Queensland’s 62 assessed stocks that is classified as overfished. However, it is internationally recognised that fish stocks at 40% (or less) of their unfished levels are classified as overfished. This means snapper in Queensland is being taken at an unsustainable level.

During the forum Fisheries Queensland will provide an overview of the most recent stock assessment, how information is gathered from the fishery, stock status modeling, age/length data and catch rate information.

This forum is about fisheries science only
Potential options for managing this fishery will NOT be discussed at these forums.

The forum will be held at 2 locations on - 26 August 2010 starting at 6:30pm. The locations will be:

Location 1.
Cleveland
Redlands Lions Community Hall
122 Shore street
Cleveland Point

Location 2.
Mooloolaba Surf Club
The Esplanade
Mooloolaba

Please RSVP here and specify which location you will be attending by 5pm, 24 August.

Please note this is an invite-only event, and not a public meeting. Only those who RSVP will be catered for – numbers are limited.

So now they want to meet with in person to "TELL US " ( NOT correspond ) - how they intend to shaft us next

Unbelievable - Scotto

[dayoo]

FYI - Team

Hi Scott

You are invited to attend a forum to be held by Fisheries Queensland to discuss the science behind the Queensland Government’s assessment of Queensland’s snapper stock.

With recent studies indicating that snapper stock is overfished, we need anglers to be fully informed about the stock status before consultation is undertaken later this year on potential changes to the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery.

By world standards, Queensland is recognised as having well-managed, sustainable fisheries. In fact, snapper is the only species of Queensland’s 62 assessed stocks that is classified as overfished. However, it is internationally recognised that fish stocks at 40% (or less) of their unfished levels are classified as overfished. This means snapper in Queensland is being taken at an unsustainable level.

During the forum Fisheries Queensland will provide an overview of the most recent stock assessment, how information is gathered from the fishery, stock status modeling, age/length data and catch rate information.

This forum is about fisheries science only
Potential options for managing this fishery will NOT be discussed at these forums.

The forum will be held at 2 locations on - 26 August 2010 starting at 6:30pm. The locations will be:

Location 1.
Cleveland
Redlands Lions Community Hall
122 Shore street
Cleveland Point

Location 2.
Mooloolaba Surf Club
The Esplanade
Mooloolaba

Please RSVP here and specify which location you will be attending by 5pm, 24 August.

Please note this is an invite-only event, and not a public meeting. Only those who RSVP will be catered for – numbers are limited.

So now they want to meet with in person to "TELL US " ( NOT correspond ) - how they intend to shaft us next

Unbelievable - Scotto

What a joke!!. This is going to be an expensive propaganda campaign by Fisheries who have no money to implement the recommendations of the RRFF working group

Cheers
Barry

[Lucky_Phill]

Scott,

I have seen their science and how they guessimate the recreational catch.

I have seen their charts, graphs, modeling outcomes, Rmax parameters, biomass estimates and much much more.

They should simply say,

" come along and have a cuppa so we can tell you how the minister will be guided by his advisor ( who has never fished ) to apply vaso to the nether regions of recreational anglers in preparation for a right royal rogering, all at the behest of lentil eating minions falling for green party machine propaganda "

I hereby decline the offer............



Regards

LP.
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[PinHead]

"not a public meeting" someone ought to tell these ( I cannot put here what I want to call them) who they work for..and that is us..the public.
As far as I am concerned Fisheries Qld can go and get stuffed.
I have had a gutful of being dictated to by a bunch on nobodies who seem to think they have power over the masses.
Well, up them.

"we need anglers to be fully informed about the stock status before consultation "..now there is a typical piece of Governemntal BS..how the bloody hell can we be informed if we are not allowed to be in attendance.
So who have they "invited"..just those that will toe their line like a bunch of lemmings..I know who fits that description perfectly..Sunfish.

Oh..and of course the charter operators.

[Horse]

What the heck were the last round of public meetings for? Their science was poorly supported then and no new research has been done since then.
I will go to this one as well but it may be time to bring out the tar and feathers rather than sit down quietly and prepare for the royal reaming

[curalo]

GOOD LUCK YOUR FIGHT HAS JUST BEGUN before you go to your meeting, let me explain how the rort works!
1. Despite anything you may think, fisheries all over Australia are ultimately controlled by Commonwealth policy and the anti fishing movement, and I mean any fishing,clearly exploit this fact.
The danger of having snapper declared "overfished" in a fishery such as the RRFFF is that the bureaucracy in Brisbane will inform you that the fishery won't be certified under the EPBC Act. The RRFFF certification expired in April 2010 and I believe as yet hasn't been renewed.
The federal minister for DEWHA, currently Garratt but the liberal alternative in Hunt doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence will then DEMAND that Qld make changes to protect the snapper stock and these rules generally include closing down areas to ALL fishing not just snapper fishing.
"Wild rivers" Annie will say that the decision is out of her hands.
So what can you do?
1. Reject the science, these models are after all only probability theory and can be heavily influenced by the input of the "scientist" involved! Garbage in, garbage out
2 Reject catch rate science, as many of you may have guessed, I am involved with professional fishing and we catch dollars not fish so our catch rates are skewed by financial decisions that often have nothing to do with availability of fish.
3. Demand empirical evidence of what Fisheries Qld claim to be evidence of overfishing. As I said in another post from what I read in their RRFFF report the state of your snapper fishery has all the hallmarks of localised depletion due to environmental factors rather than overfishing.
4. If Fisheries Qld claim the assessment has been peer reviewed. REJECT this as well. Another over schooled but under educated twit with Ph.D. has looked at the methodology of the assessment not the data that went into the assessment. Many of these so called "scientists" have spent a minimum time at sea
5. DEMAND that the fishery be externally assessed. And by external, I mean external there are very few "fisheries scientists" in this country who can claim to be impartial, most have an association with one green group or another. CSIRO in Hobart should especially be avoided. Ray Hilborn in Iceland would be a good ask.
6. Why were 2 of the 15 models rejected? Did they show that the fishery isn't overfished? Why were those models deemed to be wrong?
7. It is internationally recognised that fish stocks of 40% or less of their unfished levels are overfished.
Really, who made the rule up bureaucrats and greenies! What was the unfished level of snapper and where did Fisheries Qld get the figure from, indigenous Australians? No, I think you will find that the virgin biomass was created by the very models that they are using to close you down!
8. Pay someone with fisheries and scientific experience to attend with you, someone like Walter Starck in Townsville would be ideal.
9. Most importantly hammer your local MP, federal and state, labor and liberal or Nat over these matters. Organize yourselves, as this is a national issue and Rec fishers can deliver more votes than the greens, remember it was rec fishers who overturned Garretts ban on makos and porbeagles

[Lucky_Phill]

Can someone explain to me why Recreational anglers are restricted to about 300,000 fish ( TAC is in tons, but averaged out to numbers ) when Trawl by catch / discarded juvenile snapper numbers hit 3,000,000 in Moreton Bay alone ?

Again, why are trawlers allowed to kill 3,000,000 juvenile snapper per year in Moreton Bay while Rec anglers are having their TAC reduced time and time again.

Rec anglers catch snapper that have had a couple of breeding seasons, but trawlers can kill millions of fish that will not achieve that possibility.

You want to protect the fishery ? I know a good place to start.

IMO.


LP.
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[Smithy]

I attended the Mooloolaba meeting. We had Dave Bateman there. I think all the Sunfish arguments about garbage figures in = garbage figures out aren't going to wash with them one bit. The figures show a decline in all sectors via a couple of methods. It doesn't help any argument that the snapper fishery is ok when multiple pros were there saying it is stuffed and the best argument about that is, it is not economically viable to fish for them anymore. They were also right in saying that most pros are always worried about their licence and how much it is worth and always thinking short term but if the fishery is no good, that licence is worth a lot less as who would want to buy it if there is nothing to catch. Fisheries did not or could not answer what effect slot limits or closures will have, how quick the fishery will bounce back, how quick it will change the curve back above 40% of virgin biomass, etc., etc.

Meeting was chaired by Bridget Kerrigan and the main speaker was Mick ? who was the modeller. Steve ? was there from monitoring project and one other scientist. Who did you guys have at Cleveland from DPI and Sunfish/Charters Operators etc.? It was mostly professional fisherman at Mooloolaba with 2-3 charter guys, Dave Bateman and a couple of other rec or Sunfish guys.

[dayoo]

Originally at the Mooloolaba meeting of thr RRFF working group about two years ago Fisheries staff agrued that the snapper fishery was overfished and wanted the three sectors (Rec, Charter and Commercial) to share in the total allowable catch.(TAC)

The Commercial and Charter sectors agreed to be bould by a TAC based on the individual logbook data known to Fisheries.

There was no reliable or accurate information available to define the amount of fish being taken by recreational anglers so Fisheries proposed that a four months closure be slapped on recreational anglers ONLY thus letting the other two sectors fish until they reached the TAC allocated to each sector.

The recreational reps (Bill Corten, Ray Osich and myself) as well as two reps from the tackle industry objected to this and proposed that if there was going to be real Catch Sharing then locking out one sector for 4 mounts was not on and furthermore that the recreational sector be allocated its fare share of the total TAC of about 400 tonnes with Fisheries to accurately monitor each sectors catch records.

We put up fair and reasonable recommendations (catch cards etc) which were acceptable to all parties including the Fisheries staff present as well as the fisheries scientists who would now have accurate recreation catch figures to conduct any future stock assessments.

The whole proposals came unstuck at a higher level in Fisheries. Perhaps not enough funds to set up the necessary database or too bloody hard slap them{the recreational sector} with 4 month closure because easier for Fisheries to control and get revenue from fines


Having worked in Government for 40 years I find it very difficult to accept this treatment of the major stakeholder in fishing in SEQ completely ignoring the joint recommendations of all the stakeholders on the RRFF working group.

I won't be volunteering for any further working groups if this snapper review does not adopt the recommendations of the RRFF group.


Cheers
Barry

[honda900]

Barry,

it has become normal practice in the public service unfortunately, stakeholder engagement is only to show that the public was involved, Before we tell them what we are going to do, regardless of what they think.


Funny how all of these decisions have been made based on 2 phone polls, (science right?) and now they want o conduct a third and are asking us for participation, problem is we are the target demographic..


Propaganda, to read..

Green zone closures and snapper;
"Queensland scientists consider that these areas protect less than a couple of percent of snapper habitat and would not contribute significantly to reductions in fishing pressure necessary to rebuild the snapper stock."

"The recreational sector takes an estimated two thirds of the catch, the charter sector around 7% and commercial sector 27%"

http://www.vision6.com.au/em/message...712752&u=13082


Regards
HOnda.