What to do with fraud replies when trying to sell a boat?

[no eye deer]

Hi all,

I put my tinnie on boatsales last night and straight away got the old "buying this for my dad, cant inspect it, give me your paypal account details' reply.

The person sms'd me (at freaking 1am mind you) asking me to email them when I could, so I have an email and a mobile number, are the authorities even interested or do you reckon they have got more scam artists than they can ever hope to chase?

Cheers
Matt

I had a bloke from Holland, and a bloke from France wanting to buy my $800 tinnie. I wondered what the freight to France run. (3AM)


Mark

[Matt76]

lol nah thats not what they do....

ok, they say they cant pick it up in person for whatever reason, working offshore yada yada yada whatever, and they say they will get their pick up agent to come and collect the goods your selling.
They ask for your paypal details (which is completely safe to give them) and they then deposit your asking price + $1000 into your paypal account and they hope that you see it and get all excited about it, now these funds look like they are there but they aren't cleared funds, it clearly says so too.
They then say that their pick up agent wont collect the goods untill they recieve their payment for collecting the goods, and if you can help by paying the pickup agent the $1000 out of your own pocket because they cant pay the collecting agent because they are offshore and dont have credit card access, and the extra $1000 in your paypal account is to reimburse you for that cost.
They then give you a western union account details to deposit the $1000 into, and if you do, thats it, scam over, you just lost $1000.
Suprisingly it still happens everyday and there are people that do this kind of scam day in and dayout and usually from a free email account such as g-mail.
I have a high end race bike for sale on a website and have recieved 3 like this so far.....

Ah ok thanks mate, I knew they were up to no good somewhere lol.

They are still too dodgy to give any of my details out to!

[Dignity]

The way the scam was exlpained to me was that they do pay by PayPal collect the goods and then stop the payment going through by making a claim that the goods were not what was claimed. It seems that PayPal will action the first claim, the money is refunded and the goods are gone also. Dont know how acuarate this is as I tend to use old fashion trading methods and stay away from ebay etc.

[the gecko]

Ive been involved in a paypal dispute, and paypal wont refund the money until the seller says the goods have been returned.My dispute was setteled amicably, and I like the paypal process.

So how are they depositing unclear funds in paypal? Anybody know? Paypal doesnt accept cheques.

[toecutter]

So how are they depositing unclear funds in paypal? Anybody know? Paypal doesnt accept cheques

They'll either use a fake PayPal website sent to you as a link or use a stolen PayPal account obtained from a phishing scam from my understanding

[Jarrah Jack]

There's a bunch of people who have been done by one scheme or another and go real hard at any scammer they can find. They try to waste as much of the scammers time as possible and have got very clever the way they go about it.

One of them got a scammer to come out to Aus and reckons the scammer spent 20k of his own money on a scam he invented to scam the scammer.

[ashh]

this is for those that have alot of spare time maybe?

SCAMBAITING

[Corry]

Yeah, I had a car and boat on carsales and boatsales, got contacted via email and sms nearly 8 times for both of them. As previously said, I knew about this so had some fun with them. One chick didn't like getting called a smelly $%^&, and the abuse kept going until they stopped replying. I loved it, allowed me to release some tension on them without upsetting the other half.
Can't wait till they contact me again.

Corry

[Jarrah Jack]

Thats the best way to deal with them, treat it as fun. Play around with their heads, play real dumb then give em heaps. Enjoy yourself.

[marto78]

It happened to one of the guys at work last week, they said they were in Perth and after sending a phony paypal receipt asked for a $1000 to pay for the shipping company up front. He thought it was a bit strang and googled the shipping company which was in the UK somewhere and realised it was a scam. He reported it to paypal who with the fraud squad are trying to track down the culprits.

[testlab]

The Paypal scam.

PayPal allow funds to be drawn from a confirmed bank account if the Paypal balance is zero. Once a transaction history is established Paypal will process external payments. Here's how the scam works, which exploits a few weaknesses, which I'll outline as follows:

1. If an account is in good standing and is verified as linked to a functioning bank account, a Paypal account can have a zero balance and still make purchases.

2. The clearance time for funds transfers between banks and into Paypal is typically one working day or more.

3. To obtain funds from your Paypal account it takes at least one working day, usually more.

Read point 1 again, and then add point 2. So a scammer can now make a purchase with Paypal on a Friday night, Sat or Sun using a zero balance, bank funded Paypal account and it will show as successfully (pending) paid in both Paypal acccounts.

The goods which are bought on a Friday or over the weekend are then collected under the pretext of "I have to leave urgently... and so on" over the weekend or on the Monday afternoon. All the banking so far looks OK, even if the received funds are withdrawn from Paypal (remember the transfer delay).

Come Tuesday or Wedn (even Thurs) morning it begins to fall apart when the (scammers) buyers bank account rejects the Paypal transfer request. And the sellers Paypal account now says zero too - so the withdrawl request gets cancelled - you potentially have no goods - and no money.

Add in any 'shipping assistance' paid to Western Union and its more money ripped off.

The bank account funding the sellers Paypal is either created with fake IDs or uses stolen internet banking details. By the way, forget any notion the 100 point identity check secures bank accounts from fraud - the 100 point check is ONLY about preventing tax evasion, not security.

The banks cannot (repeat cannot) under the Privacy Act cross check your drivers license, birth certificate or passport with Govt agencies or bills or rates notices with issuers. They can check credit card details with other banks - but one can open a bank account with primary documents only. The police can check the veracity of primary documents, but of course that is after the crime is committed.

So... do not accept Paypal for goods bought on a Friday or weekend until you have the cash in hand or 100% verified as in your bank account. Even then remember if a transaction completes in error the bank will reverse the transaction and/or ask for you to return any withdrawn cash.

I believe the above is still correct. I have never been ripped off via Paypal, but even with years of internet transaction experience I got done by a different elaborate scheme involving multiple Australian banks. It was during the Police investigation I learnt about the limitations of 100 point identity checks.

Cheers.
Dave.

[Marlin_Mike]

The Paypal scam.

PayPal allow funds to be drawn from a confirmed bank account if the Paypal balance is zero. Once a transaction history is established Paypal will process external payments. Here's how the scam works, which exploits a few weaknesses, which I'll outline as follows:

1. If an account is in good standing and is verified as linked to a functioning bank account, a Paypal account can have a zero balance and still make purchases.

2. The clearance time for funds transfers between banks and into Paypal is typically one working day or more.

3. To obtain funds from your Paypal account it takes at least one working day, usually more.

Read point 1 again, and then add point 2. So a scammer can now make a purchase with Paypal on a Friday night, Sat or Sun using a zero balance, bank funded Paypal account and it will show as successfully (pending) paid in both Paypal acccounts.

The goods which are bought on a Friday or over the weekend are then collected under the pretext of "I have to leave urgently... and so on" over the weekend or on the Monday afternoon. All the banking so far looks OK, even if the received funds are withdrawn from Paypal (remember the transfer delay).

Come Tuesday or Wedn (even Thurs) morning it begins to fall apart when the (scammers) buyers bank account rejects the Paypal transfer request. And the sellers Paypal account now says zero too - so the withdrawl request gets cancelled - you potentially have no goods - and no money.

Add in any 'shipping assistance' paid to Western Union and its more money ripped off.

The bank account funding the sellers Paypal is either created with fake IDs or uses stolen internet banking details. By the way, forget any notion the 100 point identity check secures bank accounts from fraud - the 100 point check is ONLY about preventing tax evasion, not security.

The banks cannot (repeat cannot) under the Privacy Act cross check your drivers license, birth certificate or passport with Govt agencies or bills or rates notices with issuers. They can check credit card details with other banks - but one can open a bank account with primary documents only. The police can check the veracity of primary documents, but of course that is after the crime is committed.

So... do not accept Paypal for goods bought on a Friday or weekend until you have the cash in hand or 100% verified as in your bank account. Even then remember if a transaction completes in error the bank will reverse the transaction and/or ask for you to return any withdrawn cash.

I believe the above is still correct. I have never been ripped off via Paypal, but even with years of internet transaction experience I got done by a different elaborate scheme involving multiple Australian banks. It was during the Police investigation I learnt about the limitations of 100 point identity checks.

Cheers.
Dave.

I have bought and sold for years on ebay. I never have and never will accept payment by or pay for any transaction by Paypal for anyone or anything, ever. Not only because of the scam factor, but also cause ebay owns it and it is double dipping for fees IMHO.


Mike

[gofishin]

Here is a classic example of a 'scammer' as described in previous posts. Had my truck on the internet for a bit over a week when I got the first email below (at bottom of page). My response that is was still available was 'rewarded' with the following... note the email address has changed but still a 'y7mail' account and the same Christian name. Had the mind to string him along but couldn't be bothered.

It is so blatantly a scam it makes you wonder how people get duped but obviously it still happens.
cheers
Brendon
PS. I rang the number provided and got a message from a lady in NSW, but obviously her number was hijacked.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kinney [mailto:johnkinney@y7mail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 1:57 PM
To: Brendon
Subject: 2006 NISSAN NAVARA UTILITY

Thanks for the prompt response.. I am ready to buying it now for birthday gift for brother in-law and i am at sea at the moment as i am a marine engineer and due to the nature of my work, phone calls making and visiting of website are restricted but i squeezed out time to check this advert and send you an email regarding it. I really want the car to be a surprise for brother in-law so i wont let him know anything about the car until it gets delivered to him, i am sure he will be more than happy with the car. I insisted on paypal because i don't have access to my bank account online as i don't have internet banking, but i can pay from my paypal account, as i have my bank a/c attached to it, i will need you to give me your paypal email address and the price so i can make the payments asap for the car and pls if you don't have paypal account yet, it is very easy to set up, go to www.paypal.com.au and get it set up, after you have set it up i will only need the e-mail address you use for registration with paypal so as to put the money through. I have a pick up agent that will come and pick the car up after i have made the payments...

Thanks

John


-----Original Message-----
From: matkinsonrichard@y7mail.com [mailto:matkinsonrichard@y7mail.com]
Sent: Monday, 9 August 2010 8:18 AM
To: ### @bigpond.com
Subject: carsales.com.au Private Vehicle Enquiry
The following Private Vehicle Enquiry was generated by carsales.com.au:
Enquiry ID: 5050449
Date: 09/08/2010 08:18
Name: John
Town/Suburb: Near BRONTE
Postcode: 2024
Mobile Phone: 0448 ### ####
Email: matkinsonrichard@y7mail.com
Comments:Is this car still available for sale ?
　
　
Vehicle details as displayed on carsales.com.au:
Vehicle ID: 8######
Vehicle: 2006 NISSAN NAVARA UTILITY

[BayHunter01]

I can say right now, when/if I am successful in selling my boat and motor will be cash only.
Another thing, and someone may have mentioned it earlier, do not accept bank cheques that are over the amount agreed upon and the buyer then asks for change. Happened to a mate of mine, he sold his car for 19k, the "buyer" showed up with a bank cheque for 20k and asked if he could give him 1k change. he made some enquiries to the bank in question and they had cut no such cheque, Needless to say my mate told him to F' off. So be careful of this one also.

Cash is king

Cheers

[Matt76]

I got a corker today, alleged buyer seemed keen as and wanted to get get the motor inspected, I am like yep no problems. A few emails later, he/she sends a link to this site: https://www.a-z-autos.com/index.php

Looks really legit, they needed me to log in to the site and book the appointment, but of course the first step of login is credit card details. Hmm I'm not doing that, so I look further and its an overseas site, hmmm, scammer. I rang the number she gave me and it is Toll holdings in melbourne. Obviously they know nothing about it.

Very clever this one.