Fraser Coast Fishing Fiasco & E-Petition

[Derek Bullock]

SURE AS HELL NOTHING WILL CHANGE IF WE ALL KEEP VOTING LABOR. THEY MAKE DEALS WITH THE GREENS IN EXCHANGE FOR PREFERENCES. A VOTE FOR LABOR IS A VOTE FOR THE GREENS, AND YOU CAN BET ON EVER INCREASING RESTRICTIONS IF YOU GO THAT WAY.

Jeremy

I am not saying we shouldn't, and there are many reasons why Labor should be voted out, but I don't believe for one minute that by doing so it is going to have any impact on the Greens or the green agenda.

Regardless of who is in power there will still be further restrictions and lockouts of certain areas. Like I said, the Coalition with the support of the Democrats created 33% of the Great Barrier Reef into green zones.

What is needed is an alternate to the Greens and the Democrats. Kev Collins may just drop in and say what he believes that alternate is, but I think you will find despite the efforts of a number of people, that recreation fishers right across Australia are a long way from being united enough to make a significant impact on politics for some time yet.

Yes, I mentioned the Democrats. If you check their website and have seen some of the information I have, the Democrats are planning to make quite some return the next election.

Cheers


Derek

[bdaearth]

Signed and also emailed off to all in my address book

[bdaearth]

Derek I really wish you were wrong but I thimk you are right!!

[kc]

Interesting and somewhat sad state of affairs and the very thing that we were warning about years ago when the reef was under seige and the SE corner had, to a large degree, adopted a NIMBY attitude towards what was happening. In "the north" we managed (we being the collective rec fishing community NOT TFPQ) 30,000 individual submissions, 4000 people turning up at meetings, blockades of roads and ports and ultimately, when that didn't work we joined the "main game" and took the one action which actually makes these pricks take any notice....take away their votes...& not just take them away but it wasn't until we realised just how valuable votes...collected and traded actually are that we made any impact.
I would suggest that HAD we been an active "party" before the 2004 rezoning, RAP would never have happened. The libs/Nats changed their tune, not from some sense of moral conviction and any sudden realisation that they should be looking after us. It was, is and will always be about getting into and keeping power.

Labor are not the enemy of rec fishing but they are the natural bedfellows of the greens. I don't think we will ever get a fair go from Labor again because we know we will never get a fair go from the greens. The green vote is too important to the left. The only hope for the long term future of rec fishing (politically) is to make ourselves as important to the right, and then have them in power. A real big problem with this position is that we are (as a majority) a pretty blue collar sport and if a poll was run (across the spectrum of rec fishing, not this web site) fishos would be a majority labor voting block. It was one of the reasons "we" (as in TFPQ) were "valuable" to the right. We "collected" labor votes and redistributed them to the right............whereas someone like Hanson or Family First just took Lib Votes away further to the right and then just gave them back again (preferences).

To the same degree the greens have become important because they collect votes from the leafey suburbs who would normally be right voters and redirect them to the left.

The ability of a political minnow (like TFPQ/AFLP) to shift the voting pattern of the outdoor recreational sector makes it far more important and powerful than your typical minor party and along with the shooters can post a big number and shift the status quo...but its only value is if it shifts this from the left to the right.

Look at what happened with the red head last week. Krudds numbers had fallen, Abbots had stayed steady and the greens were crowing about 16%. Now Gillard is back up to 53%, Abott is still steady and the greens vote if back to 7%. It achieved nothing on a 2 party preferred.

"We" got sabotaged at the last election because we were getting too big for our boots. It wasn't dopey Bob Smith who dudded "us", nor egomanics in Brisbane too silly to even understand the political system. "We" got stiched up by a major party who made sure the fishing vote was split and ceased to be relavent and those who sided to bring down the vote ultimately stuffed up the biggest chance the rec fishing community had to really make a political statement. All the "outdoor" votes still ended up on the right but they trickled there in dribs and drabs rather than as a co-ordinated powerful block. The nats got what they wanted (the last Qld Senate seat) but "we" got emasclated along the way.

I am aware that AFLP is moving forward, albeit to the beat of a different drum and maybe has a more "behind the scenes" attitude. (Not a style anyone would ever have accussed me of having)

Hopefully they will start getting a bit more profile in the election lead up but IMO it should have been going flat out since last years AGM.
I also know the Shooters and Fishers Party is in the marketplace but also seem pretty quiet (at least in QLD). As a voting block at the last election the fishers and shooters vote combined was over 50,000 and with a few good preference deals can make an enourmous difference but at this stage I have no idea what deals have or are being done....but I have grave concerns that they won't work together.

If I had one piece of advice it would be (unfortunately) lobbying, petitions, public meetings all amount to nothing UNLESS you back it up with co-ordinated political activism and VOTES, VOTES and more VOTES.

I will again pull out of this as there is nothing worse than a bitter and twisted old has been snipping from the sidelines but I think the only hope of a fair go for the future of recreational fishing and outdoor recreation in general is for a strong co-ordinated block of outdoors votes & a conservative government. This may fix our fishing but not some of the other major issues facing us into the future.

KC

[kc]

PS : Democrats are no longer relavent. They became just a shadow green party. They stood for nothing which at all distinguished themselves from the greens.

[TheRealAndy]

Well they are tipping an August election now, so everyone needs to start making noise. Forward that petition on to everyone you know, then print out a hard copy and take it to your local tackle shop (PM the OP if you need a hardcopy petition as Ron Boswells office should be able to sort that for you).

[bigbrian47]

in NSW shooters & fishers party MLC robert brown has i believe achieved a 5 year moratorium on marine parks in nsw (at least on the mid north coast)
reference is in THE MACLEAY ARGUS if anyone is interested
seems the shooters are doing A FAIR BIT FOR THE FISHO'S IN NSW
cheers brian

[murf]

in NSW shooters & fishers party MLC robert brown has i believe achieved a 5 year moratorium on marine parks in nsw (at least on the mid north coast)
reference is in THE MACLEAY ARGUS if anyone is interested
seems the shooters are doing A FAIR BIT FOR THE FISHO'S IN NSW
cheers brian

a moratorium on what? we are getting hit in every direction atm with new marine parks and extensions to existing ones

cheers Murf

[bigbrian47]

murf google mcleay argus
go to local news
greens upset over backdown on marine parks moratorium
have a read then comment please mate
to give your take on it
cheers brian

[Mike Delisser]

Interesting and somewhat sad state of affairs and the very thing that we were warning about years ago when the reef was under seige and the SE corner had, to a large degree, adopted a NIMBY attitude towards what was happening. In "the north" we managed (we being the collective rec fishing community NOT TFPQ) 30,000 individual submissions, 4000 people turning up at meetings, blockades of roads and ports and ultimately, when that didn't work we joined the "main game" and took the one action which actually makes these pricks take any notice....take away their votes...& not just take them away but it wasn't until we realised just how valuable votes...collected and traded actually are that we made any impact.
I would suggest that HAD we been an active "party" before the 2004 rezoning, RAP would never have happened. The libs/Nats changed their tune, not from some sense of moral conviction and any sudden realisation that they should be looking after us. It was, is and will always be about getting into and keeping power.

Labor are not the enemy of rec fishing but they are the natural bedfellows of the greens. I don't think we will ever get a fair go from Labor again because we know we will never get a fair go from the greens. The green vote is too important to the left. The only hope for the long term future of rec fishing (politically) is to make ourselves as important to the right, and then have them in power. A real big problem with this position is that we are (as a majority) a pretty blue collar sport and if a poll was run (across the spectrum of rec fishing, not this web site) fishos would be a majority labor voting block. It was one of the reasons "we" (as in TFPQ) were "valuable" to the right. We "collected" labor votes and redistributed them to the right............whereas someone like Hanson or Family First just took Lib Votes away further to the right and then just gave them back again (preferences).

To the same degree the greens have become important because they collect votes from the leafey suburbs who would normally be right voters and redirect them to the left.

The ability of a political minnow (like TFPQ/AFLP) to shift the voting pattern of the outdoor recreational sector makes it far more important and powerful than your typical minor party and along with the shooters can post a big number and shift the status quo...but its only value is if it shifts this from the left to the right.

Look at what happened with the red head last week. Krudds numbers had fallen, Abbots had stayed steady and the greens were crowing about 16%. Now Gillard is back up to 53%, Abott is still steady and the greens vote if back to 7%. It achieved nothing on a 2 party preferred.

"We" got sabotaged at the last election because we were getting too big for our boots. It wasn't dopey Bob Smith who dudded "us", nor egomanics in Brisbane too silly to even understand the political system. "We" got stiched up by a major party who made sure the fishing vote was split and ceased to be relavent and those who sided to bring down the vote ultimately stuffed up the biggest chance the rec fishing community had to really make a political statement. All the "outdoor" votes still ended up on the right but they trickled there in dribs and drabs rather than as a co-ordinated powerful block. The nats got what they wanted (the last Qld Senate seat) but "we" got emasclated along the way.

I am aware that AFLP is moving forward, albeit to the beat of a different drum and maybe has a more "behind the scenes" attitude. (Not a style anyone would ever have accussed me of having)

Hopefully they will start getting a bit more profile in the election lead up but IMO it should have been going flat out since last years AGM.
I also know the Shooters and Fishers Party is in the marketplace but also seem pretty quiet (at least in QLD). As a voting block at the last election the fishers and shooters vote combined was over 50,000 and with a few good preference deals can make an enourmous difference but at this stage I have no idea what deals have or are being done....but I have grave concerns that they won't work together.

If I had one piece of advice it would be (unfortunately) lobbying, petitions, public meetings all amount to nothing UNLESS you back it up with co-ordinated political activism and VOTES, VOTES and more VOTES.

I will again pull out of this as there is nothing worse than a bitter and twisted old has been snipping from the sidelines but I think the only hope of a fair go for the future of recreational fishing and outdoor recreation in general is for a strong co-ordinated block of outdoors votes & a conservative government. This may fix our fishing but not some of the other major issues facing us into the future.

KC

Thanks for your insite KC. I know you wish to bow out but before you do can you comment on something that I have problems eccepting; The newly elected conservative Gov in WA courted the fishing vote by promising to look after them if they were elected (just like the LNP have been doing) then within their first 6 months in office they brought in the toughest bag limits in WA history, new yearly rec fishing licences for anyone fishing from a boat, plus shore based licences in the planning stages, biggest increases in boat regos in WA history, and greatly increased their green zones plus added some new ones. In March Labor and Inds almost blocked some of these changes in the WA Parliament but the Libs teamed up with the Nats and the Greens to block Labor, the Libs couldn't have done it without the help of the Greens.
Can you tell me why a conservative Gov won't change their tune and do the same to us here in Qld when Labor get the boot and they are in office.
To me what happened to WA anglers seems to be a dirty little secret that gets swept under the carpet.
BTW signed the e-petition, number 240 I think, we need more!
Cheers

[murf]

murf google mcleay argus
go to local news
greens upset over backdown on marine parks moratorium
have a read then comment please mate
to give your take on it
cheers brian

http://www.macleayargus.com.au/news/...s/1871142.aspx

A spokesperson for the NCC said the government had agreed to in-principle support of the proposal on condition planned expansions to marine parks at Coffs Harbour and Jervis Bay were approved.

so I am still screwed here in Coffs

I still don't see it or understand it maybe I should dig a little further

cheers Murf

shit its cold in my shed tonight down to 8 deg already and I am getting up at 4.30am to go snapper fishing

[kc]

Hi Mike,

From what little I know of the WA situation it is very different (from a political perspective) to "court the fishing vote" compared to "doing a preference deal" with an organised voting block.....these "deals" appear to be far more binding because the voting block brings somthing real and tangible to the table. i.e. a big fat block of numbers which can and does influence the outcome of an election.

Before the last Qld election both Labour and Libs courted the "fishing vote" in Qld. Both had the photo ops with rec fishos down at Redcliffe pier and both had announcements about what a great policy they had about rec fishing.all amounted to nothing. This would never have happened if the "fishing vote" was not seen as a real block.

The difference, at a Federal level, is that firm and binding agreements are reached with preference partners i.e. the review of the GBRMPA, the extension of the structural adjustment package to include land based rec sector businesses, the overturning of the criminal convictions for green zone breeches. The agreements are "usually" honoured as the parties look towards long term strategic relationships. This was particularly important for "us" because, as I stated above, "we" shift voting paterns from left to right, not just right to further right.

I do not take a position (personally) which says a lib government will be any better than a labor government. What I do believe is that IF the "fishing vote" is an organised and tradable voting block then IT can become as important to the right as the green vote is to the left. WA has no such organised block, despite some efforts on the part of AFLP to get one organised, and maybe they are suffereing as a consequence. The Qld experience is a little different because during the 2004 to 2006 election cycle (federal and then state) TFPQ started getting too much traction to ignore and was able to demonstrate at a state election, across 4 seats, that the "fishing vote" was a very real 7% and fishos would vote for a "fishing party" if they had a chance. "Our" position at a state level has weakened since as a consequence of the well documented issues with TFP in NSW.

IMO a Labor government should be far more sympathetic to recreational fishing than a conservative one, who, along with the Nationals see fishing as a primary industry and have historically heavily favoured that sector. Labor are however tied to the greens, more so when they are in government and really won't support us. When they are in opposition however they can make all the warm and fuzzy statements about rec fishing becauser they know it won't change anything.

The future, and maybe the hope is to continue to push the political solution and if this is not going to be a just 1 party then it is vital (IMO) that the 2 representitive organisations (AFLP and Shooters & Fishers) are combining forces before they start talking to either of the major parties.

KC

[chisel]

Good info KC. I guess one problem is that not all keen fisherman think along the same lines regarding the extent of conservation required. Not everyone would necessarily want their "fishing party" to join up with the shooters' party in order to do a deal with one of the major parties. It may be the only way to gain any real traction but it could leave a nasty taste in some people's mouths.

One thing is for sure though, everyone is going to have to compromise in order to get some wins in this ongoing battle. We can't expect to continue forever without some further restrictions on where and how we fish. If we are not careful to protect the image of rec fishos and if we're not willing to do some deals on the extent of conservation measures then we could see a further backlash from the general public (driven primarily by green/left influence on the media) and fishing could be all but banned at some stage in the not too distant future.

[murf]

Good info KC. I guess one problem is that not all keen fisherman think along the same lines regarding the extent of conservation required. Not everyone would necessarily want their "fishing party" to join up with the shooters' party in order to do a deal with one of the major parties. It may be the only way to gain any real traction but it could leave a nasty taste in some people's mouths.

One thing is for sure though, everyone is going to have to compromise in order to get some wins in this ongoing battle. We can't expect to continue forever without some further restrictions on where and how we fish. If we are not careful to protect the image of rec fishos and if we're not willing to do some deals on the extent of conservation measures then we could see a further backlash from the general public (driven primarily by green/left influence on the media) and fishing could be all but banned at some stage in the not too distant future.

I would say it is 80% banned in my area now they lock up 20% of the prime fishing areas

gunna have to start fishing for flathead as there will be no reef left to dangle a line

cheers Murf

[Sandman]

Signed up will try and get to the rally picking up the new yak so wont be far away from the rally if time permits.
Mick