New shooters and fishers political party

[Chris Ryan]

The below in my personal opinion only.

I agree somewhat there John L, the individuals need to take ownership and responsibility but I think that is a blanket requirement across all of mainstream society. It seems we have potentially 2 generations who are used to "doing what they want" because discipline and order was seen as very negative in the Politically Correct academia world which has been developing policy on both sides of the political fence. This has created a semi-anachist attitude, particularly amongst the youth and the 20-30yr old demographic.

Yes, one should be able to defend oneself and the idea of a home owner being arrested for grevious bodily harm in stopping some S.O.B from hurting his family is a joke in my personal opinion. However when the mongrels get caught they should be shown that the severity of their actions is punished accordingly; not good behaviour bonds or token slaps on the wrists as "highly strung naughty boys/girls".

This is a complex arguement. I for one prefer to go back to the part where the S&F guys will support fisherman. The policy is a bit light and needs more substance for my tastes. It looks a little like rec fishing is a second cousin to the firearms cause on the website and based upon posts above it is a "I shoot, and catch fish" so it at least matches that thinking. I personally don't agree with the idea of rec licensing but understand that has been built from their NSW base but the other points in the fishing debate are the same as most of us have been arguing over for a while now. Any plans that you know of John to expand on that as the election looms closer?

Cheers,
Chris

[John L]

Chris Ryan,

Chris the website has only been up a short time, but I do know that there is more to come on the fishing side [ even shooters have complained that it is light on in that area.] Remember most shooters are also fishers.

The Shooters Party has been very active in supporting fishers in NSW and they get a lot of support from them in return.

The Shooters and Fishers Party is the new federal arm of the shooters party in NSW and intends to move across the whole country and contest federal elections.
I understand they will concentrate on the senate . Not sure wether they will be set up in Qld in time for the next federal election , but are in the process of setting up branches in WA, SA, NT, NSW, not sure about VIC as they have a sister state party called Country Alliance in VIC.

One of the key aims is to restrict the greens in the federal arena which can only be good for us all.

[Franco]

Gentlemen I wonder if the debate here has strayed off topic and become a litlle too complex to actually be able to make a decision??

The priority is to have a united, large-membership group representing all of us in an effort to allow responsible, sustainable use of our outdoor environment and ecosystems.

I'm sure we all like the concept of a united more powerful group, under the title of something like The Australian Environmental Access Group/Party as suggested.

I wonder if fishers and 4wders became a dominant membership in a group such as the S&F party .... could this then lead to the evolution of such as party into a united group with a less-emotive title and perhaps policies more agreeable to all and representative of all?

Lets not forget that most ALP / Liberal / Democrat supporters don't ALWAYS agree with EVERY policy of that party. One should choose the party that MOSTLY represents ones beliefs and interests.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks John and yes, restricting the balance of power away from the greens is a very good goal!

[PinHead]

Paddles,

It's called being responsible. Do you as a gun owner leave you guns lying around where the kids can get them? Of course not.
I am not suggesting that someone who is irresponsible, senile or incapable of rational thought have acces to mace.

But a similar licence system to a gun licence where responsible people have a choice.

If you feel that you wouldn't be responsible enough to handle a can of [non lethal] mace I would sincerely suggest that you hand in your guns now in the interests of public safety.

All elderly, women, sick, etc are not hopeless and helpless, they just do not have the physical capabilities to defend themselves.

well John..if you think that mace should be licensed similar to guns then the elderly and sick etc won't be able to get it.
Perhaps you should read the Qld rules pertaining to gun licenses, a couple of excerpts for you:

"Who can apply:
Be a fit and proper person "

and then,

"However, in determining a person’s “fit and proper” status for the issue, renewal, suspension or revocation of a licence an Authorised Officer must also consider:

i) the mental and physical fitness of the person; and"

kinda leaves out a lot of the handicapped and ill etc.

As for my views on self defence..I have never worried about it. I have never had any need for a firearm and never had any need for any other form of self defence.

You talk about bashings and muggings etc as if it happens on every street corner..hardly the reality. More sensationalism.

Did you also know that mace can have very little effect on people who are under the influence of grog or drugs..or are you referring to pepper spray which in some instances can be lethal?

[krill]

As for my views on self defence..I have never worried about it. I have never had any need for a firearm and never had any need for any other form of self defence.

Fair dinkum, with all due unrespect, what a load of BS. Are you telling us that you wonder around Oz society, and have never thought about the defence of yourself or your loved ones? You must live in some gated paradise or alternate universe to the one we all live in. The one inhabited by an abundance of bikies, hardened gang crims and hordes of feral kids with not an ounce of decency in their pea brained skulls. Do me a favour and go walk around any oz town after dark by yourself, then come back here and tell me it's hype.

[kc]

Despite my best attempts to avoid political comment it needs to be said that the S & F party represents both an opportunity and a potential threat. It doesn't really matter how many minor and even like minded minor parties there are. Yes the vote is split but our political system gives the chance for it to unite again come preference time and this is the opportunity.

Minor parties and special interest parties with some common ground can and should work together for the combined good of that common ground. We can always resepect our differences and don't have to agree on every subject but the job of a political party is to best represent the wishes of its members and voters.

The history of the debacle of the last election was the splitting of the "fishing vote" with TFP votes directed to a major. TFP ran purely for the benifit of a major and with direct involvement of a major. It ran to split the fishing vote because said "major" felt it could not win without first preference support of the "fishing vote". Students of our political system can work out the details but I'm not going to spell it out.

Do some numbers. The combined fishing vote was about 40,000. The shooters vote was 12,000 (in Qld) and had that all been combined in a preference deal under the AFLP banner (along with 2000 from liberty and democracy party) it would have been 54,000 before it went head to head with family first (53,000). By this time AFLP would be 107000 and a pretty decent swag of votes before it went head to head with the first major and would have been within a few thousand votes of winning a seat.

The TFP tactic was a direct spoiler, arranged by another political party, with the express purpose of making sure this didn't happen and was NEVER about getting the best deal for fishos.

What should also be remembered is that any party moving up the ladder and accepting the preference votes of another party has some moral obligation to represent the wishes of those voters. Just as the Nationals and family first have "done the right thing" by fishos the last few years as a direct result of the moral obligations they have as benificiaries of the "fishing vote"

That moral obligation is to represent some but not all of the views of a party whose preferances you accept. If you are completely at odds with the views of a potential preferance partner then you don't go down that road. We, being the fishos, have lots of common ground with the shooters, lots but not all. If the fishing vote (hoping it is a united fishing vote, or at the very least a united by way of preferances, fishing vote,), joins with the S & F party by way of a preferance arrangement so what! One party goes forward with an obligation to represent the aims, some not all, of the voters under its combined banner. The fishing vote will, or should, be much larger than the shooting vote and so all a shooters party can do is bring more votes to the collective "outdoors" group, united by way of preferances into a very big number.

The only fly in the ointment is that this is politics and moral obligations have little to really do with decision making. If this whole thing was done with a sense of honour and in the very best interests of the voter base then it can be all positive.

The tale of the tape come preference time gives a very clear picture into who actually pulls what strings.

I personally hold my head pretty high that we did the best we could to get the best possible outcome for fishos and this included negotiating in good faith with the shooters, despite copping some flack from within our own ranks. Like it or not we are brothers in arms and a shooters party is not a threat, political puppet masters are the threat.

KC

[John L]

Pinhead,

Actually the weak, handicapped, sick etc are not excluded from a firearms licence.

For instance in my local shooting club we have shooters who ... have one arm only [ pistol shooter] wheelchair shooter, people with cancer, people suffering from depression. [quite okay as long as you are voluntarily under under treatment from a doctor and have a doctors certificate], people with serious heart problems, people with kidney transplants.

All are fully licenced for firearms , rifles, shotguns and pistols in many cases.

The only people who are really excluded are criminals, dvo and avo, severe mental problems[certifiable] and the blind[ and if in the rare case someone has no arms, although we could probably work around that with prosthetics].

Actually the shooting sports are one of the few sports where quite severly handicapped people can compete with able bodied people on an even basis.

[PinHead]

Fair dinkum, with all due unrespect, what a load of BS. Are you telling us that you wonder around Oz society, and have never thought about the defence of yourself or your loved ones? You must live in some gated paradise or alternate universe to the one we all live in. The one inhabited by an abundance of bikies, hardened gang crims and hordes of feral kids with not an ounce of decency in their pea brained skulls. Do me a favour and go walk around any oz town after dark by yourself, then come back here and tell me it's hype.

give me a break..i drove cabs around Brisbane on night shift for 6 years..seen all the seedy side of the place and yet..never have I felt threatened.

I don't live in paranoia of someone bashing me..if it happens. it happens.

I grew up in a rough area and once agai ni don't livei n fear...something you guys obviously do.

I have left 50k worth of gear sitting on my driveway in full view for a couple of weeks and nothing gone..dunno where you blokes live but maybe you should consider moving.

"abundance of bikies, hardened gang criminals and hordes of feral kids"..maybe you should relocate..you obviously live in some slum squalor if that is what you are surrounded by.

I'll walk anywhere after dark on my own..I don't have any fear of anything like that.

Tell ya what I 'll do krill..you choose the place and time and i will walk through there with you and I will hold your hand just so you are not too afraid of the dark.

[Awshucks]

LOL..can almost hear duelling banjoes after reading their policies.

As revelant as it was then it still is now to you greg:

"A fear of weapon's is a sign of retarted sexual and emotional maturity". Quote Sigmund Freud.

[Mike Delisser]

"Who can apply:
Be a fit and proper person

That leaves you and I out Greg

[PinHead]

definitely Mike..that is why I have never applied for one.
No need or desire for one and definitely too stupid for one.

[PinHead]

As revelant as it was then it still is now to you greg:

"A fear of weapon's is a sign of retarted sexual and emotional maturity". Quote Sigmund Freud.

I'll bet ya that Freud could have spelt "retarded" correctly.

BTW..who said anything about a fear of them...someone also said that a firearm is just for those that have a problem about appendage size...LOL

[krill]

give me a break..i drove cabs around Brisbane on night shift for 6 years..seen all the seedy side of the place and yet..never have I felt threatened. I don't live in paranoia of someone bashing me..if it happens. it happens. I grew up in a rough area and once agai ni don't livei n fear...something you guys obviously do. I have left 50k worth of gear sitting on my driveway in full view for a couple of weeks and nothing gone..dunno where you blokes live but maybe you should consider moving.

Gold. This is drongo logic at its finest: just because its not probable that you will be savagely bashed or killed you do squat to prevent it. Better pull those airbags out of your car, after all, bet you didn't need them the last 100 times you drove.

Reasonable logical people believe in taking precautions against threats.

maybe you should relocate..you obviously live in some slum squalor if that is what you are surrounded by.

Nah, this is what I see on holiday on the coast. Where I live everybody owns firearms and uses them for work on a regular basis. Home invasions are rare as hens teeth. The ferals know what's waiting for them. Funny that.

I'll walk anywhere after dark on my own..I don't have any fear of anything like that. Tell ya what I 'll do krill..you choose the place and time and i will walk through there with you and I will hold your hand just so you are not too afraid of the dark.

No thanks - not into holding other fellas hands. But if you are feeling keen why not take a midnight stroll where former AMA president Mukesh Haikerwal did big boy...

A gang of up to six youths went on a violent rampage in Melbourne's west on Saturday, bashing and robbing five pedestrians in an hour including the former president of the Australian Medical Association. Police discovered.

Mukesh Haikerwal, one of Australia's most respected doctors, beaten and unconscious on the ground by chance when they were called to another violent robbery in the same street, Lyons Street, Williamstown. The attacks happening within ten minutes of each other.

Dr Haikerwal's brother Deepak said he was expected to make a full recovery after undergoing life-saving surgery to remove a blood clot on his brain caused by a strike with a blunt instrument to the back of head.

Detective Senior Sergeant Kieran Moloney said all five victims were men and were walking alone when they were attacked.

Oh yeah, all sensationalism, never happens eh? Better tell that to the bloke I know personally who was savagely bashed a few months back while walking around at night in Australia's highest per capita income city. The perps didn't even want money... just did it for "fun".

[PinHead]

too funny to respond to krill..just vote for your gun buddies..back to the wild west we could go.

once more ..no need for a gun and no desire for one either.