Freshwater Tide fishing

[Awoonga]

Now let me say this l dont subscribe to the theory because being a comp fisherman the times you fish are controlled by others not by you . So being new moon, black moon or full moon or whatever factor l try not to let it influence my fishing too much but the last two nights at Awoonga the tide peak and the bite times have coincided. They have lasted about forty minutes . l looked at the barro and no change . There has been no moon as we have had 90% cloud cover Coincidence ? lets see what tonight brings

[DEANO68]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

soooo, what did last nite bring trev...????

[Awoonga]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

soooo, what did last nite bring trev...????

Rain Ok Deano but dont tell a soul..

.A new technique was tried..Bank fishing , should that be muddy wet bank fishing.
l tell you its worse than wet carpet Apart from the rain it was good. About forty minutes later then last night. Four fish in about a hour and l left them .Too wet to continue.. Pattern ?..But its early days.

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Trev,
If Gladstone was never originally settled where it is today and maybe settled where Boyne Island is instead, say 30 km south, the tide chart would give a completely different tide time- making your tide change bite time not very accurate. The high tide/peak/change up the back of the salty parts of the Boyne, the closest point to Lake Awoonga would be about 2 hrs later than any book time.
Gladstone tide times are only a point of reference which has been adjusted to give the port an idea of tide heights and times in that specific spot. Add or subtract hours or minutes for destinations close by.
What other factors changed during the time you say the bite occured?
What did the rain do, increase or decrease?
What did the temp do the night before prior to the bite time, did you look at the minute adjustments? What did the wind do in that period? What else may have occcured? What time were you fishing?
J

[Tropicaltrout]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Maybe with the tide factor the moon also and this time of year, a few things line up and the dam reacts in its own way, Like ultra big tides around now full moon humidity making things hatch and then bait reacts, rain wetting the wings of the hatch then landing into the water bait feed, barra feed and wammo, hence why a few nights it was the same time then a different change in temp it happen a different time of day.... happens alot down south... anyhow a small theroy

Cheers Nath

[Big_Ren]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

And that being the case, if there is some noticeable effect, would there be a variation from say, at the ramp, to up the Boyne Arm near Boynedale Bush Camp?

Just thinkin' aloud here.

Cheers
Paul

[tiges]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Rain Ok Deano but dont tell a soul..

.A new technique was tried..Bank fishing , should that be muddy wet bank fishing.
l tell you its worse than wet carpet Apart from the rain it was good. About forty minutes later then last night. Four fish in about a hour and l left them .Too wet to continue.. Pattern ?..But its early days.

I think I might be familiar with that bank Trev , or was it another one?

[Awoonga]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

No another one. But l must say you have taught me there are many more ways to skin a cat...err l mean Barra..l thank you for that

[SeekingBarradise]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

This is a really interesting subject and i'd like to thank Trev for bringing it up again. It has been covered before in some detail, so it's a good time for a refresher as i'm noticing a trend that when topics haven't been talked about for approx 12 months, they are forgotten.

I found some golden info regarding this topic and it's branches, in my opinion it's a golden read, that's if you like reading thought provoking barra info?
If not this info will not be your cup of tea.

It's a good friendly thread with many contributers.

I've posted some of it below, but make sure you read the links, lots of golden
info there as well.

Cheers Lyndon.





Steve,
As this seems the right thread to fine tune talk about lake fish, I'd just like to question your thoughts on Tidal Changes. I'm not pickin your ideas to bits for the fun of it- don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to get a grip on the idea. (which I struggle with) It is your words at the bottom of this post that I particularly like.
Firstly, like Lyndon said in an earlier post, if we took notice of all the apparent mentioned hot or active times to fish for barra- moonrise, moon set, moon up, moon down, sun rise, sunset, tide changes, lar de dah dee dah, etc we would find ourselves on the lake atleast 18 hrs out of 24. I'd bet I could catch a barra in the other 6 hrs in that day! So really, 'industry' hasn't fine tuned anything for the average angler, so lets take a closer look at the tide change.



You must refer to some card, chart or book to read what time the tide change is I imagine? Now, when does, or is the tide supposed to change on the lake? In any ocean, river, harbour or creek, tidal changes can be hours apart. For example, I can fish the first two hours of an in coming tide on a tidal headland whilst my friend less than 20 miles away is still fishing the last hours of the out going tide. If he went further up stream, the tide is half in where I am, and still going out where he is! So if we bracketed the times of tidal changes between the 18-20 miles, we end up with a 3 hour window, and in the 3 hrs window, there has probably been 50-100 tidal changes in the various rivers and streams in between, and in about 3 more hours, the cycle starts again, in reverse. So are you referring to a minute time window of 25 mins on a lake, based on a chart that gives tide times for point x, y or z, or are you clarifying tide change with some other instrument I'm not aware of, because I find the tide change theory hard to swallow when we talk of fine tuned windows, not gaps hours wide.
What are your thoughts, and can you really support it with something strong?


I like these words of yours better than your idea on the tide-
I have found there are subtle changes in the air, wind direction, water movements and a 'feel' I get, just prior as a 'hot bite' period occurs...its weird, but I can feel it, more often than not...there are distinct water activity that occours, be it bait or movement....but it happens and its too weird to explain.
Steve, I think you just explained it very well!! I'd give you 10 out of 10 for that paragraph in bold print.

Here is the link i forgot to add in my original post, sorry i was running out the door, didn't have time to add it then guys. It's posts are a must read.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=153130

Vet, (Scott) and Dick,
Your statistics laid out point to a trend of bright moon success, but how much of this success occurs during the daylight hours,,,,,,, the other half of the day?
I know (Scott), you rarely fish extensivley during the daylight and hover in the stillness of the eve. So if a visitor arrived to fish Awoonga on the moon,,,full, etc, would you expect them to have equal chance by day as they would by night, or by day would you be recommending a totally different moon phase to amp their possible chances during the day?



Dick,
One thing I'd like to see laid over your catch results would be weather conditions and catch techniques. As we all know, there are a few different ways to trigger a fish/barra to bite a lure, hunger not being the key derivative at all times. (Reaction, instinct, reflex etc)
I once thought gun tides and superior moon phases existed in the salt fisheries, but once a few more doors got opened, I realised we as anglers needed to alter our approach a great deal to continue staying in contact with fisheries where altering conditions closed one door and opened another. In apparent peak times, factors aligned and helped us with our candid and simple styles that we adopted. (the fish came to us). I no longer see tides in rivers or sea, or moon phases that make me pack my stuff and go, but I now see a series of 'circumstances', or 'creations' made by nature that require a differing approach to get results. As Scott (Vet) says, several key variables need to align for the bright moon to add to to his super success. Subtract one key variable, and it's back to average results.
I'll add this link for anyone else who may be keen to read it. The whole page of paragraphs is connected to this matter.

http://www.fishawoonga.com.au/variables.htm
Johnny

[Steve B]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Lyndon,

Thanks, I remember that thread well. It may be wrong, but I go by the tide times for Kolan river mouth (myra)..and the only probable adjustment (or experience) different to my thoughts last year, is I dont think it has a physical effect on water movement (ie currents etc)...but it has a mild effect on the external weather...mostly a breeze change that I have noticed...and mabey other 'forces' that I cant detect that cause a small window.

here is another theory, anyone can smash it to bits if you like....I certainly wont be offended.

Having Spuds father in law in charge of letting water out of the dam has been a great help working out this theory...Now, remember the trollathon days in the basin area around Oct over past years particularly 2006 and 07...except this 2008 2009 where it has occoured (albiet less) later say mid to late Nov....well I have coincided this with the significant releases in water (not letting out little bits here and there)...but big dumps for continued periods.

Would or could this be creating an under current drawing towards the wall that we cant detect...but the fish can..making them think 'its time to go to sea'......Further to this this alledged migration has occoured more pronounced as with lower levels of the lake.

My analogy to base this theory is a bath tub. You have a full bath tub and pull the plug. the water moving out appears less on the surface....and is probably not creating a massive undercurrent either as there is plenty of water pressure to suck/push it down the hole....now as it drops further...momentum takes hold....water is in its narrowest form (ie Mondy right now..nearly back to river beds)....thus a stronger under current...even a surface current would occour. these currents may well be felt by the inceased sensory abilities of barra....thus the instinctive migration each year.

Its out there I know, but its worth some thought and discussion. I had been talking to Foxie about it also.

Sorry to hijack Trev...its sort of the same ballpark topic possible worth a metion.

Cheers Steve

[BR65]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Im thinking along the same lines mate.
Ive also got a "thing" re tide changes. I know what John says makes sense, but those wind pauses, and then gusts after the turn....

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Brian,
Yea, wind variances are more plausable and fit neatly in the big picture a whole lot better. Look at what the wind does to the system for a finer answer.
Steve B, the release of water would have a giant affect on barra patterns. I like your thinking and discovery.
J

[Big_Ren]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Lyndon,
Having Spuds father in law in charge of letting water out of the dam has been a great help working out this theory...Now, remember the trollathon days in the basin area around Oct over past years particularly 2006 and 07...except this 2008 2009 where it has occoured (albiet less) later say mid to late Nov....well I have coincided this with the significant releases in water (not letting out little bits here and there)...but big dumps for continued periods.

Would or could this be creating an under current drawing towards the wall that we cant detect...but the fish can..making them think 'its time to go to sea'......Further to this this alledged migration has occoured more pronounced as with lower levels of the lake.
Cheers Steve

I reckon there is something in that too Stevo.....that barra are following their natural and strong urge to spawn (we've heard of barra going over the wall at Tinaroo, bass doing the same at Macdonald etc) in times of significant overflow/outflow.

My one observation around this is that most of the water being pumped out is coming from the lake bed or near enough to it.....that's why we had such a stench coming from the dam wall area back in November.

If that is the case, would the water quality nearest to the dam wall zone be less than what it is 200 metres up the basin???. Taking that further, if water quality is adversely affected closer to the wall, would it then create a physical buffer zone through which travelling barra would be reluctant to transgress.

In other words, better fishing might be had further up the basin than near the wall??? Just where is that physical point though, if it exists at all, or does it change by the minute, hour or day?

Feel free to shoot this theory down as well as I am no marine scientist by any means.

Cheers
Paul

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Paul,
That sounds spot on to me, but knowing little about Monduran water pumping leaves me out of the equation, but these are all things that have their affect on the fishery, and it is awesome to see anglers coming up with this stuff and laying it on the table. It would be like putting an earation bubbler or water feature in Monduran and sitting back and watching how that on it's own changes part of the lake and draws barra like a magnet. Another portion of this chapter is flood waters and how it creates awesome fishing situations and bad ones. It does both really well. Fish leave some areas and flock to others due to a number of issues.
PS No barra on a roach yet either.
JM

[SeekingBarradise]

Re: Freshwater Tide fishing

Lyndon,

Thanks, I remember that thread well. It may be wrong, but I go by the tide times for Kolan river mouth (myra)..and the only probable adjustment (or experience) different to my thoughts last year, is I dont think it has a physical effect on water movement (ie currents etc)...but it has a mild effect on the external weather...mostly a breeze change that I have noticed...and mabey other 'forces' that I cant detect that cause a small window.

here is another theory, anyone can smash it to bits if you like....I certainly wont be offended.

Having Spuds father in law in charge of letting water out of the dam has been a great help working out this theory...Now, remember the trollathon days in the basin area around Oct over past years particularly 2006 and 07...except this 2008 2009 where it has occoured (albiet less) later say mid to late Nov....well I have coincided this with the significant releases in water (not letting out little bits here and there)...but big dumps for continued periods.

Would or could this be creating an under current drawing towards the wall that we cant detect...but the fish can..making them think 'its time to go to sea'......Further to this this alledged migration has occoured more pronounced as with lower levels of the lake.

My analogy to base this theory is a bath tub. You have a full bath tub and pull the plug. the water moving out appears less on the surface....and is probably not creating a massive undercurrent either as there is plenty of water pressure to suck/push it down the hole....now as it drops further...momentum takes hold....water is in its narrowest form (ie Mondy right now..nearly back to river beds)....thus a stronger under current...even a surface current would occour. these currents may well be felt by the inceased sensory abilities of barra....thus the instinctive migration each year.

Its out there I know, but its worth some thought and discussion. I had been talking to Foxie about it also.

Sorry to hijack Trev...its sort of the same ballpark topic possible worth a metion.

Cheers Steve

Steve yep i remember talking to you about this a year ago.

A couple of years before that i had a good chat with Brett Jones who used to run
stillwater charters on Monduran. He noted changes in wind with tides as well.
At times dropping barometer as well. Cooling winds at times. And i remember him saying the fish were harder to catch.

He told me that he noted when current was flowing out of the dam that it could also make the fishing harder. I know this also relates to different fishing styles, but i took note of his observations as they were built up over a lot of days on that body of water.

History: I remember Harro writing about creek bed currents a few years ago as well. Along similar lines to your thoughts etc.

I had several conversations with Mitch on this subject, and we disagreed on a few points which was great. So chase your ideas and theories i say, it may take me ten years or a lifetime but with one theory i reckon i'm right, i just need to get better and smarter to prove this. And the learning that will be had along the way will be the fun bit.

Cheers Lyndon
ps Here is the Moon Phases link to the cracker of a thread last year.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=153130