Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

[Tropicaltrout]

Hey all not posted on this one cause it was due to go one way...

I look at it a little different then a few and education on fishing, lure mods and C&R are always on my mind when chasing the fish but I do belive in my case (a small fish in a big pond) its simply my mods are small maybe stupid in the minds of others but hey thats fine and I like em so thats all that matters best part is I cant get judged why cause I am small school yiippeee My Mat for instance its mine I made it it works and I love it.

Sharing of info is a hard task on the net people share, people question and then breakdown, the trouble with opinions is there idividual same as ideas and we might not all share the same ones, hence the sometime back and forth post of conflict....

The Taylors are well the top of thier sport and thats great they arnt out their boasting they take it in thier stride and that's what makes em better then everyone else, not mods not where they fish just... Simply they go fish in a comp do it the way they see fit and win they keep to em selves and go off to thier home dam or where ever and plug away till the next one. They are the best at the moment and probably a long while and if they keep it the way they are doing it now they will be a force to strive for in the comp world.

The thinking Angler, well there is a fine line when it come to this topic you either are thinking or bickering... pff if you look through it and try not to involve yourself thier are some cracker tips in it, for one would any of us small folk pic some of the stuff you saw on AFC without some of the points made by the boys in this topic???

The Mondy Crew well a title given to those who go to Mondy and fish have a few beers and fish some more not a bad way to go fishing in my book, a classic case of judgement by people that dont respect that some people do go fishin to simply enjoy themselves... If all the so called Crew where to be on AFC and where into premotion then yes bad angle but they arn't and are all very nice people and some a cracker fishos and some cracker cooks...

Guides well in my book there are some goodins and some f wits they are in it either for the self premotion and the big wig status or in it for straight up education of angler, or a passionate love of the fish themselves the last two are the two greatest assets in the fishing game not the Taylors or whoever the guys who lay the foundations of those who fish for them. They hit the water with open eyes and clear minds and over time work so much out that us as weekend fishos could never do, the ones who share info wether it be criptic like Mitch or straight report like Paul they are the guys who I look at for small clues in the never ending puzzle. Yes shows like AFC and the brillance of those guys together show of some stats but in normal every day fisho just a case of going fishin the guides that we listen too will offer some sort of mind set when on the water..

Anyhow happy days and happy fishin all

Nath

[NAGG]

Hi Lyndon

welcome back

Thanks for taking the time to go through the archives & put them up. I'm sure it will make for some interesting reading.

Aside from the archives though ......



Hi Nagg I try to see where you are coming from, you disagree with a lot the Taylors do, for the second year in a row, you had pages like this last year as well.

Your posts regarding the Taylors come across like a dose of Tall Poppy Syndrome, like you want to really, really be the tournament champion, at all costs.

It looks like you are looking at things from the point of view of a Half Deflated Goon bag, or A glass half empty of Stones Green Ginger, when I see opportunity to learn, like the page of learning points I listed last year in this exact same debate regarding AFC footage, yet you always seem to concentrate on the negative aspect of the Taylors fishing and add in 10% positive to cover your ass mate.

I might be a half deflated goon bag ..... but & least I'm not looking through a rose coloured glass !
....... No ass covering Lyndon - just calling it like I see it -
Tall poppy syndrome ....... far from it & as previously - once again you are off the mark with regard to my motivations........ try again

Sorry that you find it so hard to swallow anything contrary / negative / opposing viewpoint / said or written about people you idolise - Thats life!

Chris

PS ..... As for "Internet Guru" - you know very well that I'm involved in the game & not just talking about it !

[Apollo]

I guess the problem with any TV footage is that you don't get the whole picture as the guy actually doing it, sees it. What I mean is that as the camera is focusing on the 'pro' and their rod/body work, it isn't focusing on what the fish is trying to do and thus what the 'pro' is trying to counter that or the other way around. We are not getting the whole perspective.

An example. Couple of days ago I was fishing bank side for barra on very light line and hooked onto a mid size fish. The owner of the property saw me hooked up and drove down to see how I had done. He turns up and comments that I running along the bank a bit and would be better off standing still to apply more consistent pressure on the fish. This was his (the observer) perspective! What he didn't see was that I was on 4lb line and the fish was in amoungst weeds and lillies so I needed to continually change my angle of attack to give me a chance to get the fish out of the 'salad bowl' without the aid of heavy drag/line and rod power. This was my perspective (right or wrong, however I will claim right as it was landed).

My initial observations to the Mondy round, were that the Taylors used a couple of very quick, short, sharp hook sets and sometimes this was repeated. Why? What were they trying to counter? I would be interested to know as this technique could be useful. This is different to how I have done it in the past, so is something to remember to try if poor hook set becomes an issue for me. I agree that the fight (for all the competitors) seemed to be hard and fast but without actually being there and getting the full picture, I am unable to make comment. I did see that several fish were almost netted as they jumped close to the boat. Maybe this is a landing technique that could be used for barra. I have done it for toga. Certainly a skill to develop for the net man (plus strong arms).

The footage of one Taylor over the side with rod fully submerged to counter the barra that went under the boat and then have it jumping on the other side of the boat, kind of deflates the low rod angle bit to stop jumping theory a bit. This was excellent footage.

I found this series much better than last and am happy that they put the two Taylors together as they really are a 1+1=3 type combination.

Thanks to all for putting up your comments/observations as it give the rest of us some other viewpoints to consider/look for and as has been said, hopefully learnt from.

Cheers
Steve

[Peter4]

Geez guys, do we have to get into this petty bickering again? Personally, I'm getting bloody sick of it.

Anyhoo just thought I would post the ABT view of 'snagged rods' from their website:

"As per the rules for BREAM - Anglers may only use one rod at a time while fishing all BREAM events. This includes such cases as when a lure is snagged but still attached to the rod, anglers can not pick up another rod and begin casting - this would constitute using two rods.

As yet the BARRA Rules as published aren't as strict. It was possibly a good pick up by the Taylor boys.

We will have to wait and see if the BARRA Rules get an overhaul this year.

Made for good tv viewing and got some people talking."

Maybe 2010 will bring about some changes.

Regs

Pete

[Peter4]

The footage of one Taylor over the side with rod fully submerged to counter the barra that went under the boat and then have it jumping on the other side of the boat, kind of deflates the low rod angle bit to stop jumping theory a bit. This was excellent footage.

A well balanced and well thought out reply Steve.

We often hook up to barra in less than 2m of water and if you turn them away from their run into deeper water they have no other way to go than up!

Personally I love the spectacle of a rampaging barra that gives an airborne display. Sure you may lose a few fish to thrown hooks, but it really gets the heart pumping and adds to the excitement of the hunt.

On the positive side continuous jumping does tire the fish more quickly...

Regs

Pete

[NAGG]

Geez guys, do we have to get into this petty bickering again? Personally, I'm getting bloody sick of it.

Regs

Pete

Totally agree ........ discuss the points of contention rather than make personal attacks -

Chris

[TinarooTriumph]

What I've found in the past, is that a half-deflated ghoon bag makes for a good pillow after a nights drinking. Perhaps it's time for a few of you here to take a nap yourselves from the internet - all of those that post on this forum in excess of 10 times a day (Mondy crewers). You mighten like the term 'Mondy Crew', but if I'm reading right we might have to change it to 'Naggs Crew' as from the last dozen or so threads started in this Freshwater section, most have been all about the man.

There was even a thread started by an angler who fished Monduran & caught a barra or two on a Viper lure - think it might have been there first every barra from memory, and the thread ended up turning into a Nagg-fest & his hatred for one of the most valuable big fish lures every to be produced. This was no way to treat & angler/s who have just caught there first few barra's... but then again, it's all about one angler on this Ausfish forum. Starstruck much?

Don't take this post as a personal attack Chris, as hell I've launched a few at you in the past. What this post is all about is telling it like it is - something I, and every barra angler worth their salt do each & every day. Opinion's on an internet forum makes then what they are, but the big picture is always missed, as are all the 100% accurate facts.

Another glance at the big picture... I'd hate to think what the Taylor boys are going to think when they read this thread. They could be thinking a few different things, but rest assured they won't be changing any techniques. Matter of fact they'd love reading this... 'everyone beating each other up over us' is what they SHOULD be thinking. I'll just get my pen out & pencil in a 5th straight AOY title to them now I think...

[vet]

HI Steve, I believe that the multiple short sharp strikes of the rod throughout the fight isn't done to set the hooks but is a fighting technique designed to turn the barras head and get it coming out to you quickly, keep the barra near the surface and to disorientate the fish so that the fight duration and hence opportunities to get off are minimized and then an early net shot is allowed. This is why the twins have trouble netting the fish as they are still green. Short sharp rips of the rod will cause more pain to the fish than steady pressure so is a better method to convince a fish to go where you want it to instead of running where it wants to go. You can see in the footage that once the barra gets it's head down and starts running than the twins fight the fish much the same as everyone else.
Go out and try it, you may be suprised how effective it is, particularly on mid sized fish.
Cheers, scott.

[alphas]

So true,what would this section become if the crew left for a month or two??
Yes,the smartest people on AF are Cy and Kerrin.

Some people I fish with would love to share some of their techniques and thoughts,but once I pointed them here they replied with"too niche,and seems too biased to one particular group"

A shame,as some of the techniques they are using are mind boggling..Even to the extent that we now can target and catch barramundi in the brisbane river with some of these left field tech..(scour the net,you'll see the pics)

I dont care for the "coached"comments,if top ranking anglers seek out the advice of their peers-all the more luck to them.

Why dont some of you pay and go for a charter with JM?? See if some of his musings do work,learn..even if it is the smallest thing,it would be valuable.

A pack mentality exists here.What gives with printing and handing out ettiquette paperwork which was proposed earlier???In a public place,like an impoundment as long as the LAW is observed you are free to fish how and what you like.

Old mate with the noisy 2 stroke blowing your spot,big deal-move on.

Lets see what becomes of it,could certain people let others run the roost here??

[Big_Ren]

The footage of one Taylor over the side with rod fully submerged to counter the barra that went under the boat and then have it jumping on the other side of the boat, kind of deflates the low rod angle bit to stop jumping theory a bit. This was excellent footage.

Hey Steve

It may be that in some cases, there is not enough time to change your boat's position (usually on full electric) and improve your fight angle.

Sometimes the barra have a strong head and you have no option but to stay captive on one side fighting with the fish jumping on the opposite.

Thrusting the rod so deep would more than likely do two things: it improves the fight angle, and more importantly, dramatically diminishes the chances of breaking a high modulus rod (under heavy load) through physical contact with the boat, or breakage through fighting at angles the rod was never designed to cope with.

Cheers
Paul

[Steve B]

Hey Steve

It may be that in some cases, there is not enough time to change your boat's position (usually on full electric) and improve your fight angle.

Sometimes the barra have a strong head and you have no option but to stay captive on one side fighting with the fish jumping on the opposite.

Thrusting the rod so deep would more than likely do two things: it improves the fight angle, and more importantly, dramatically diminishes the chances of breaking a high modulus rod (under heavy load) through physical contact with the boat, or breakage through fighting at angles the rod was never designed to cope with.

Cheers
Paul

Yep Ren, they did a good job on that one...having been in that position a few times, its difficult to shift in a hurry to get to the other side. you cant free spool as the line will inevitably end up around sharp bits at either end of the boat. you just have to wait it out and see what the barra does. I have a 2 piece Egrell from a few years back where the rampaging barra hit at the boat and went straight under. I highsticked it (upside down, under water...and blank hit the boat)...all ended up ooouch....but I got the fish!

Cheers steve

[Big_Ren]

Same thing happened to me at Awoonga back in '07 Stevo. 11.30 at night....hooked up and before I knew it, a nice barra charged at the boat and jetisoned itself straight under the boat and out the other side.

I felt like a statue being crapped upon by a pigeon.....I couldn't do anything but stay in the one position.

I was gobsmacked when the fish began jumping out the other side, so with a bit of quick leccy work by Navi, we got back into a good fighting possie and landed the fish, although broke the tip of my Redington in the process.

Glad you brought up the point about the risk to the line as well. Doesn't take much when taut to simply go "ping". Fish gooooooone.

Cheers
Paul

[SeekingBarradise]

Nagg: Multiple snagged rods The tactic sounds great (along with not wanting to contaminate a location - we all do it to some extent) ..... Till a fish is hooked - If it is a big fish ...... What happens then ? ....... the reels are in free spool (instant birdnest - should a fish jump over those lines) Then you loose the time in fixing the mess before you can do much with the hooked fish - potentially rods could be lost overboard.
IMO The Taylors landed that fish out of pure luck rather than good management (a jumping fish on the other side of the boat).


Yes but no Nagg.

You could also look at it like this. Your above comments are reading like fear of winning, and fear of failure combined, an interesting mindset and not a good one to take into any sport.

It goes back to the kid with that ball.
He is going to hit that ball first, eyes on the ball (goal or target). Then decides where it goes, all in one action.

Hooking, fighting and landing the fish might have been the Taylors priority. Nothing you printed in the above paragraph happened, they landed the fish, points tallied up, job done.

I’m sure they took all you said above into consideration, and managed to avoid everything you listed. I call that lateral thinking combined with the smarts and skill to complete the task in a way not a lot of people have thought of….
Job well done I say.

Like taking a quick snap kick from the sideline in AFL, you have to believe you can make it, because thinking of everything that can go wrong at that moment is pointless and counter productive.


Nagg: All in all ...... Was this great fishing or adrenalin fueled youthful exuberance or possibly even panic. The first thing a runner or boxer will say after a video session will often be.

“Hell I never thought I’d look like that on video/tv. It adds 10lbs, makes my head look like Bert Newtons and even though I think I’m co-ordinated when completing the task, I still look Unco at times.”

Have a think how you would look if you were on film Nagg. Mistakes and all.


I was going over footage of Dick Pasfields trip over here to catchup with us and the Awoonga guys to swap a few notes. I couldn’t believe how fast I was retrieving my line at times. What we think we are doing, and what we are really doing are 2 different things on more occasions than we are aware of at the time.

Yet when i mentioned this last year you laughed at it, well now video footage is making sense as you might be there on TV one day and not realise how you look and act, let alone what you are actually doing while fishing.

That’s why guides like JM & Harro are always interesting to talk to regarding charters, coaching and fishing.


Nagg: Would you teach this stuff to your barra fishing pupil
I thought the Taylors have been using this style since 2006 and won
4 ABT titles in a row with it and a few AFC ones as well.
Reckon It’s worked pretty well so far.

If you have a better system, list it in detail now, so they can learn a few things from you.

Cheers Lyndon

[NAGG]

Nagg: Multiple snagged rods The tactic sounds great (along with not wanting to contaminate a location - we all do it to some extent) ..... Till a fish is hooked - If it is a big fish ...... What happens then ? ....... the reels are in free spool (instant birdnest - should a fish jump over those lines) Then you loose the time in fixing the mess before you can do much with the hooked fish - potentially rods could be lost overboard.
IMO The Taylors landed that fish out of pure luck rather than good management (a jumping fish on the other side of the boat).


Yes but no Nagg.

You could also look at it like this. Your above comments are reading like fear of winning, and fear of failure combined, an interesting mindset and not a good one to take into any sport.

It goes back to the kid with that ball.
He is going to hit that ball first, eyes on the ball (goal or target). Then decides where it goes, all in one action.

Hooking, fighting and landing the fish might have been the Taylors priority. Nothing you printed in the above paragraph happened, they landed the fish, points tallied up, job done.

I’m sure they took all you said above into consideration, and managed to avoid everything you listed. I call that lateral thinking combined with the smarts and skill to complete the task in a way not a lot of people have thought of….
Job well done I say.

Like taking a quick snap kick from the sideline in AFL, you have to believe you can make it, because thinking of everything that can go wrong at that moment is pointless and counter productive.


Nagg: All in all ...... Was this great fishing or adrenalin fueled youthful exuberance or possibly even panic. The first thing a runner or boxer will say after a video session will often be.

“Hell I never thought I’d look like that on video/tv. It adds 10lbs, makes my head look like Bert Newtons and even though I think I’m co-ordinated when completing the task, I still look Unco at times.”

Have a think how you would look if you were on film Nagg. Mistakes and all.


I was going over footage of Dick Pasfields trip over here to catchup with us and the Awoonga guys to swap a few notes. I couldn’t believe how fast I was retrieving my line at times. What we think we are doing, and what we are really doing are 2 different things on more occasions than we are aware of at the time.

Yet when i mentioned this last year you laughed at it, well now video footage is making sense as you might be there on TV one day and not realise how you look and act, let alone what you are actually doing while fishing.

That’s why guides like JM & Harro are always interesting to talk to regarding charters, coaching and fishing.


Nagg: Would you teach this stuff to your barra fishing pupil
I thought the Taylors have been using this style since 2006 and won
4 ABT titles in a row with it and a few AFC ones as well.
Reckon It’s worked pretty well so far.

If you have a better system, list it in detail now, so they can learn a few things from you.

Cheers Lyndon

Yes Lyndon ....... In the end all was good - fish landed & points tallied ( just like Ricky Pontings win at the SCG ..... brilliance or lucky) - I have my thoughts on both!

Better system or different system - time will tell

Chris


















Chris

[Steve B]

I am trying to find a camera that makes me look thinner and the fish look fatter!!!

So far they all work the opposite!

I have been interested to watch myself on camera a few times...picked up a few tips too......3 min seems longer at the time ..ooh are we still talking fishing!

Cheers Steve