Barra Basics – Pop Quiz

[NAGG]

Thanks Nagg and JM was stumped on the meaning as as water does not compress all that well.

I'd refer to what you describe as water mounding (a groundwater phenomenon), might not be the technically correct words either. If you measured surface water height you'd find it higher on the windward side. I've visually witnessed that in a creek on Lake Argyle. A storm moving across the lake (20ks) pushed water before it making the creek run backwards. The only way that could happen would be raising the water height in the bay the creek fed into.

Not really compressing at all ..... is it (but pushing water onto ........ & drawing water away from another location
...... I guess its the aquatic version of convection current

As that water is being drawn away from that southern bank it is being replaced by water down deep ........ I saw a great example of this sitting on a bank of Lake Wallace (trout fishing) & I still remember it clearly - - - - I watched a little piece of plastic (subsurface) move towards me - rise as the water got shallower & then move away from me ........ there was only a little breeze that was coming over my shoulder ....... bazaar I thought at the time ...... as I had no idea that there would be currents in a closed lake

Chris

[gaz066]

Ok then learnerd gents , if we stay with the current flow conversation and assume we can pick the current flow direction etc will the best fishing be where the flow terminates ( end of the line) ? or......somewhere along it's route if we have good 'local' conditions ?

Eg If the current flow is 'bouncing' of a point and changing direction is that point worth fishing ? assuming of course the other variables ( temp, baro,water quality etc ) are OK

[Dick Pasfield]

Once again with Lake Argyle, A couple of years ago some work was done to ascertain the amount of silt deposited, and where. In doing so they needed to get accurate water level heights using old survey points dotted around the lake. One of their technical hitches was that the lake was 40cm higher on the top of the lake compared to the bottom, not much over 50ks but it needed to be resolved for the data to be accepted.

Further to currents, if water is pushed into a bay raising the head in that area water it would need to flow back. It seems logical that it would flow back downhill using the old channels??

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Gaz,
It is like the current in a creek on the flood or ebb tide; the current creates possibilities along the way for feeding fish to take advantage of. From the mouth of the river to the top of the river, the tide creates situations that can be beneficial, or not so, to fish. You have to look for the 'creations' along its path and see what it offers on the day. So yes, fishing a point with current hitting it is worth a try------> if other vairables align. It isn't quite the full case of following the current to the gold pot at the end, but it may just be a collection point for debri, water, increasing temp etc etc etc. Eg, in a northerly on Awoonga, fish are still caught from the ramps to the southern parts of the system, Boyne and Futter creeks included, as well as on the eastern and western shorelines. One thing to remember on current flow is whilst many cast anglers now use it to help identify spots to fish, there are still trollers trolling far from the shoreline where the current is acting more like open ocean currents- colliding, creating upwellings, or bouncing or rising up from river edges etc. Not only do we need to look at its travel direction, but we also need to look at it's (semi) vertical movement as well.

Dick, yea, the incoming water has to escape at some point on an edge or in a bay, and this is always evident. An often overlooked segment in lakes is what I call 'spill over water', the escaping water that leaves a spot and continues on it's way. It takes a bit more to identify and nail it on the head- suprisingly, not many anglers fish these types of water accurately- well I don't see it on my day to day travels anyway.
JM

[Dick Pasfield]

Dick, yea, the incoming water has to escape at some point on an edge or in a bay, and this is always evident. An often overlooked segment in lakes is what I call 'spill over water', the escaping water that leaves a spot and continues on it's way. It takes a bit more to identify and nail it on the head- suprisingly, not many anglers fish these types of water accurately- well I don't see it on my day to day travels anyway.
JM

mental picture of water taking the easiest route:

Some water tumbling down hill following the paleochannels and water diverted sideways, running along the shoreline then at an opportune place running back out again much like classic beach wave action side flows running down the beach and a rip taking it out again.

Banks and channels determine how water on a beach cycles (formed from wave action or reefs) Other landscape structures below the water would determine the flow pattern in a bay??

[NAGG]

mental picture of water taking the easiest route:

Some water tumbling down hill following the paleochannels and water diverted sideways, running along the shoreline then at an opportune place running back out again much like classic beach wave action side flows running down the beach and a rip taking it out again.

Banks and channels determine how water on a beach cycles (formed from wave action or reefs) Other landscape structures below the water would determine the flow pattern in a bay??

Bank composition & gradient would also have something to do with flow ( a steep rock point would deflect a current abruptly - while a gentle sloping weed bank would absorb a lot of the energy "flow"

[gaz066]

mental picture of water taking the easiest route:

Some water tumbling down hill following the paleochannels and water diverted sideways, running along the shoreline then at an opportune place running back out again much like classic beach wave action side flows running down the beach and a rip taking it out again.

Banks and channels determine how water on a beach cycles (formed from wave action or reefs) Other landscape structures below the water would determine the flow pattern in a bay??

Dick, I think your rip analogy makes a lot of sense , so……..does this escaping water ( flow) typically a narrower band and faster moving ( similar to a rip) take the bait and fish with it ? or would bait and fish ‘sit’ in the eddy that water moving in different directions would create ?

Parksy

[Dick Pasfield]

mental picture of water taking the easiest route:

Some water tumbling down hill following the paleochannels and water diverted sideways, running along the shoreline then at an opportune place running back out again much like classic beach wave action side flows running down the beach and a rip taking it out again.

Banks and channels determine how water on a beach cycles (formed from wave action or reefs) Other landscape structures below the water would determine the flow pattern in a bay??

Dick, I think your rip analogy makes a lot of sense , so……..does this escaping water ( flow) typically a narrower band and faster moving ( similar to a rip) take the bait and fish with it ? or would bait and fish ‘sit’ in the eddy that water moving in different directions would create ?

Parksy

Look in the transitional water areas between the faster moving water and the slower moving waters. The corridor might only be a metre wide. Look inside the eddys for those transitional zones as well, such as hard up against a ball, rock or bank. Dont be surprised if the fish are facing another direction to what you think they should be. The slower flow of the eddys creates smaller transitional zones between the opposite running currents. A move a few cms and the current could be coming from the other direction.

[tiges]

Great thread guys. So much info being shared in the right manner. Definately opened my eyes up to some other 'options' to try on those tough days.

Glad to see a thread not turn into a sh*tfight, and everyone benefitting.

[Awoonga]

Guys this stuff is good but some of it is over my head . Sorry . The title of this thread is Barra Basics. l dont wish to offend anyone and l am sure that the knowledge that is being shared is very usefull. But l am just a humble barra fisherman that has trouble with my knots. l catch the odd fish and l try to help others when l can
So this is my post.
Bite windows yes they happen but do we wait for that window? You come from Sydney for you barra fix once a year. You have read this thread so what do you do? You are only here for a week .Do you wait and fish only when these windows happen…ie Dawn / Dusk, Moonrise wind change ect…if l came from Sydney to fish for barra l would want to maximize my time on the water not wait for these windows. Or the other scenario you fish the barra comps and they tell you when you can fish! If you waited for a” Window “during these times you might not catch many fish. So it’s a package deal consisting of being in the right area { meaning fish in the area } and lure presentation {How you present your lure to the fish } When using soft plastics how many times do we just through them out and wind them in ? l am guilty of this myself. But fishing alongside two of the best barra fishermen in Australia during the Barra tour has shown me a better way. There retrieve is a art form .Every cast is 100% effort and concentration. As it has been said before how many times when you do something different with your retrieve you get a strike. It might be the smallest thing like moving your rod tip to the side or lifting your rod causing a reaction from the fish. You are fishing areas that you think fish will be and they most likely are. Without you even knowing it those fish are following your lure back to the boat. To promote a strike you need to change that action. Stop, lift. Drop, speed up slow down. Remember you are fishing areas that have been fished before , maybe a hour before. its doing something that is not the norm that may cause the fish to strike

[NAGG]

Humble yes .... but just a barra fishoe no way Trev!!!!!! , ...... dont sell your self short.

I know what you are saying though ...... & I 'm pretty sure that Gaz in not coming from a standing start ..... when he talks Barra Basics. Its certainly the next step up and driving towards consistency ....... of which many would be wanting to achieve.

If we can locate the fish ........ we have taken a big step forward.

Then we need confidence in what we are using & what we are doing

If we get to that stage ....... & can catch fish - we are beyond the basics of barra fishing.

To trigger a bite at any time of the day is certainly the pinnacle ........ so you need the skills to locate fish & then have the skills to entice a fish to bite ........ angling in the truest sense

Chris

[Plasticin]

Dick, yea, the incoming water has to escape at some point on an edge or in a bay, and this is always evident. An often overlooked segment in lakes is what I call 'spill over water', the escaping water that leaves a spot and continues on it's way. It takes a bit more to identify and nail it on the head- suprisingly, not many anglers fish these types of water accurately- well I don't see it on my day to day travels anyway.
JM

So to further question this "spill over water" say I was looking at the back of a bay with current pushing into it. I am looking for the place where the water either turns under on itself or deflects to run back out of the back, against the obvious surface current. Would this be the "spill over water"?

Recent barra travels seem to further reinforce what has been preached since the release of the Fish Awoonga DVD. Current is the overriding force and it is imperative that one is aware of it when searching a dam but identifying current is not the be all and end all. I am guilty myself of fishing too many bays just because current is pushing into them. More thought is required before lowering the anchor.

Scott

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Scott,
As the dvd shares, identify current first; and then spend the next 2million years working out how it helps and hinders- but once on the path- the info will come- if all the other variables are entwined amongst.
The topic is huge- so each individual angler has to work things out from here on in. Wind, waves, temp, clarity, bla bla bla are all 6 million word topics as well.
As long as interested people are on track- things will get easier for them.

'Spill over' water would be the bit that flows over and out/around a location and carries on further with the wind/current- like filling a bucket and following the water as it spills over and goes elsewhere.
JM

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Trev,
As mentioned earlier, it is still recommended that anglers cast all session- even highly skilled anglers have trouble identifying these windows that help, so there is no easy description on 'when' for a visitor to follow, apart from continued casting/trolling.
Eg, many mention a dawn/dusk window; so how long is dawn and dusk?, and in reality, when dawn is over, the 'window of opportunity' may just be starting. Windows are millimetre measurements, not inch descriptions.
To be honest- current stumps many an angler, and we all continue to do our homework on that very topic- and I think that the 'window of opportunity' subject is one that is left way down the list as it is way more refined than realised, to the point that further info on this topic could be the act that spoilt the party. It may take the fun out of fishing for some, so I will close that info in true fear of the info killing the fun. serious.
On this very topic, the 'under the spotlight article' describes a huge amount in relation to this subject discussed here. The sweetwater fishing site article link could be added under here once again for those who missed it, or missed the points within it. I feel this article is one of the better pieces I have sat down to create.
Johnny
http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/...ic,3730.0.html

[Steve B]

Trev,
As mentioned earlier, it is still recommended that anglers cast all session- even highly skilled anglers have trouble identifying these windows that help, so there is no easy description on 'when' for a visitor to follow, apart from continued casting/trolling.
Eg, many mention a dawn/dusk window; so how long is dawn and dusk?, and in reality, when dawn is over, the 'window of opportunity' may just be starting. Windows are millimetre measurements, not inch descriptions.
To be honest- current stumps many an angler, and we all continue to do our homework on that very topic- and I think that the 'window of opportunity' subject is one that is left way down the list as it is way more refined than realised, to the point that further info on this topic could be the act that spoilt the party. It may take the fun out of fishing for some, so I will close that info in true fear of the info killing the fun. serious.
On this very topic, the 'under the spotlight article' describes a huge amount in relation to this subject discussed here. The sweetwater fishing site article link could be added under here once again for those who missed it, or missed the points within it. I feel this article is one of the better pieces I have sat down to create.
Johnny
http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/...ic,3730.0.html

It will only take the fun out of it for those who aren't interested. Trust me Johhny, there are many here, especially myself that ARE interested. I have been toying with a few things regarding this very topic over the past year quietly (a term not associated with me generally by some)..and this topic has really confimed and discredited (in a good way) a few of my observations and theories that I have. So thanks...and I hope you do keep going. Its learning...its good...it would be awesome if you kept contributing...but a point does come where practice is required before thoery can continue I spose.

Cheers Steve