Yet another fatal rollover at fraser

[cormorant]

Thanks Mitch, I didn't know that. On checking, I find you are correct! The 'Cruiser is safe from the kids, courtesy of being a V8...

Cheers,

Tim

Can still apply for an exemption on the basis that it is the only car avaliable I believe - maybe not so safe - Shhhhhhh don't tell em

[PinHead]

every motor vehicle death saddens me let alone those that are crippled and sustain bad injuries. We do not teach our kids how to drive a vehicle before they get a license..getting a license only proves how to get a car from point A to point B..not how to DRIVE the car. Very few could actually tell you about the physics of a motor vehicle when cornering etc.
I have driven for 36 years..raced a rally car..done some stupid things many years ago yet I have not driven on sand..I too would be as dangerous as any tourist on the stuff.
I do not know what the answer is to stop all road fatalities but I sure as hell would love to know the answer..they are all a tragic loss of life and in the vast majority are totally preventable.

[Blackened]

I do not know what the answer is to stop all road fatalities but I sure as hell would love to know the answer..they are all a tragic loss of life and in the vast majority are totally preventable.

They could start with a compulsory subject in school from grade 10 through 12. Maths, English and Science is compulsory.... why not Vehicle safety/handling?

Dave

[Lucky_Phill]

Interesting stuff greg..... yep you are correct. all the ROAD experience in the world cannot fully supply you with the knowledge to tackle sand / beach or even offroad 4WD driving.

From my perspective and experience.

I have been beach / offroad driving in many different 4 x 4's both single and towing small to large loads for many years. I have driven on the various TYPES of sand / beach....yes, there is great differences in types of sand materials.

I have worked and played on Fraser Island and seen too many near misses to be blase' about the driving aspect.

I will say I am competent and confident on the beach , but I am NOT an expert or professional. I always drive within my capabilities of my driving experience and vehicle. This can ONLY come from actually driving on the beach....to this end...

This is where the hire companies need to take positive action and provide a vehicle for hire on the island and do the driver training IN THE SAND, and not via some add-hock 10 minute video on the mainland. NOTHING can prepare you for the beach other than the beach itself.

To be honest, it takes minimal time on the soft stuff to get used to it and become confident as there are basic rules that I will not go into here as those who beach drive know them and those that don't, don't need to know. FYI.... most if not all beaches that permit motor vehicles are ' designated ' roads under Queensland Traffic regulations and therefore road rules apply to the beach. This point is mute once O/S and “ holiday mode “ folks get on the sand.

I have also taught many people to tackle the sand and I believe my most important piece of advice is “ what does your gut feeling say ? “. That is, if the sand ahead looks soft or you see a dip or ridge ( whoa boy )……and you are unsure… well back off, slow down, engage 4WD or simply stop and take stock. It is NOT a race and when you are on the sand you are most likely on holidays or partaking in a leisure activity, treat your journey as such and you will not only survive, but enjoy the experience.

I personally hate backseat drivers while beach driving…… the driver is in control of the vehicle and as such commands the respect of their passengers and should be afforded the support required. There are no lines, no guide posts, no traffic lights and no signage to make one aware of obstacles, like on the bitumen.

I am looking forward to the M & G at Bribie early in the new year and assisting the newbies to the delights of beach driving.

Stay safe you ferrets………..


Cheers Phill.
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[FNQCairns]

Whatever happens they will treat the general problem same as they do on the backtop, if the road toll is lower the police and pollies congratulate themselves on only their job well done if it is high they cast blame wide and everywhere away from themselves, variability and chance never plays a recognised part in their control of the outcome.

You grab your keys you take the chance, it's low individual risk but the population is large so fodder for those who need to control the uncontrollable will always find an ear. The risk in general life or quality of life from sickness is grossly higher but we seem to have near freedom of lawful choice in this area.

Anyway, the sand has not changed the cars have on average got better for high speed sand driving, probably every used beach in Australia has seen a 4wd roll over at some time in it's history.

Why do they not simply point their finger squarely at the problem (commercial activity) and leave the general public alone, just because there is 5 times the population on a beach than 25 years ago doesn't mean that any one citizen has 5 times the risk of a roll over or is 5 times less deserving of the outcome of a roll over or that any singular event is 5 times more noteworthy than those past and well past.

Point the finger where it belongs, the governments suck up to commercial ventures as having more rights and worthiness than the general public has.

Stick it to the hire company's like the government almost in fun and frivolity stick it to us Anglers or campers...that will force the hire industry to tow the line quick smart.

cheers fnq

[TimiBoy]

Whatever happens they will treat the general problem same as they do on the backtop, if the road toll is lower the police and pollies congratulate themselves on only their job well done

True and true, but for different reasons;

The pollies pat themselves for doing absolutely nothing, being the blood sucking pieces of sh!t they are,

But the Coppers have achieved something in spite of the budget cuts, increased job complexity, increased correctness and political bullsh!t they are subjected to day and night, 365 per year.

The Fuzz pull one or two furfies, but on the whole I stand by them all the way! Tough job, oh so tough. And getting harder!

Cheers,

Tim

[PinHead]

True and true, but for different reasons;

The pollies pat themselves for doing absolutely nothing, being the blood sucking pieces of sh!t they are,

But the Coppers have achieved something in spite of the budget cuts, increased job complexity, increased correctness and political bullsh!t they are subjected to day and night, 365 per year.

The Fuzz pull one or two furfies, but on the whole I stand by them all the way! Tough job, oh so tough. And getting harder!

Cheers,

Tim

very true Tim..I would not be a copper...must be so bloody difficult to operate with this Govt.
Yet you still hear people bagging the coppers yet who are the first ones they call when in some strife..the coppers.
I was talking to one a couple of days ago, who is also a member of this site..a nice bloke..but his job must be incredibly difficult..you cannot help but admire how they even get the results they do under the current circumstances.

[BenDover]

I dont admire them at all...

[FNQCairns]

I dont admire them at all...

Gotta feel for them over the Christmas period though, rostered on to deal with the general public when they should be with family or at least relaxing in readiness to be with the family's family

cheers fnq

[Kevaclone]

While I am no fan of regulation, I must admit I am leaning towards some kind of additional licensing requirement for the driving of 4WD's. If we had such regulation, it would be increasingly difficult to hire one as an overseas tourist. (But Anna would waive it for tourists...)

## Tim

And there are plenty of morons who would agree with you
BUT
What is a 4WD??????
the lines are so blured now it would be impossible to make a 4WD licence class of vehicle.


Kev

[tug_tellum]

The very first time I attempted Beach Driving I dont mind telling you I was sh!tt!ng Besser Blocks. I had heard about these things called washouts & saw photos of vehicles that hit them & rolled causing vehicles to be written off, & drivers & occupants to require serious medical attention, but my first venture onto sand was with a competent beach driver who showed me a lot of dos & donts of beach driving. Armed with all this knowledge I became more confident & competent . Following others became part of my driving habit. If I was the first off the barge , I would pull over & let others through to guide the way. The same as simply driving along an unfamiliar section of beach for the first time ,I would tag along behind somebody as they came past.These are the basic things that beach drivers need to learn. If the vehicle in front disappears into a wash out & rolls over , dont follow him any further! Then you learn what a washout looks like. Chances are , the vehicle in front of you knows what he is doing & will light the way for a safe passage for you.
Tourists wont learn a lot about beach driving in 3 days. I believe what is needed is a guide for them not lower speeds for us or more regulations for us or more liscences for us, but a designated guide for them. Why not hire out 5 Troopies to go together,to follow each other, to follow the leader, who is responsible for looking after them. This guide can be in contact with all of them by UHF & give a guided tour at the same time. Drive the beach with them ,camp with them, teach them about Dingo safe practices & not to destroy the fragile ecosystem that we all love. When you spread the cost of this person out over 5 vehicles I dont believe it would be so costly that Back Crackers could not afford it, & if they dont want to afford it , well maybe they figure their life is not worth that much.This is only my opinion but I reckon it should work, It is at least worth a try . Hell! I might even put in for the job myself. Tug

[Stik-ugly]

Anna keeps telling us that she is not afraid to make the tough decisions ,yet after the previous deaths of tourist on Fraser in a hire 4x4 she did nothing .Why not have a tour guide driver for each vehicle or at least one for a tag along tour. Stop fart -arseing about it will end in all drivers being penalized in some way and as for the 4x4 license why not also introduce one for performance vehicles as well and one for vans , where do you stop.

[TimiBoy]

And there are plenty of morons who would agree with you
BUT
What is a 4WD??????
the lines are so blured now it would be impossible to make a 4WD licence class of vehicle.


Kev

I hope, Kev, that you're not calling me a Moron? If you are I would have to ask you to take back such a compliment!

I know there are blurry lines, there always are, and that's where Legislators run into trouble. But this is a "road" that seems to be punching above it's weight in terms of it's capacity to kill - what can be done? Surely all agree something needs to be done...

Let's put it this way - I oh so often see people driving cars such as Cruisers and Patrols who obviously shouldn't be. But then on the road I see Tradies driving utes, and girlies driving shoeboxes, and effwits driving riceburners, the list goes on, who quite obviously received their license from a Twisties packet.

What if you were no longer allowed on Fraser with anything other than say a Cruiser, a Patrol, an Exploder (sorry Cheech!), or a Pajero? Others are on the list, of course. But a line is drawn. And each of these drivers requires a special license to drive that model. OK, totally impractical, and needing to find some middle ground. Where's the middle ground?

I dunno...

Tim

[ozscott]

Let's put it this way - I oh so often see people driving cars such as Cruisers and Patrols who obviously shouldn't be.
Tim

...couldnt agree with you more Tim

[ozscott]

What if you were no longer allowed on Fraser with anything other than say a Cruiser, a Patrol, an Exploder (sorry Cheech!), or a Pajero? Others are on the list, of course. But a line is drawn. And each of these drivers requires a special license to drive that model. OK, totally impractical...
Tim

Dead right Tim - if Land Rovers are not allowed on Fraser who is going to tow those lardy 200 series through Indian Head cutting?

Cheers