Ironman Suspension

[Richard]

Hi Guys,

Anyone had any experience with this stuff ?

Looking at getting a kit fitted to my '99 dualcab hilux..


cheers

Richard

[OISTA]

Gday Richard, I put some under my Cruiser ute about 10,000kms ago. Works well. I also put greasable shackles in which I consider a must to keep your suspension in good working order. They hold weight well and flex OK (Cruiser utes aren't know for wild flex).I am not real keen on their shocks as they do fade a bit, I'll be replacing them at about 40,000km. their springs on the other hand are excellent.

If I was to do it again I'd go Ironman springs and hardware and a set of big bore Raw 4x4 shocks.

[Richard]

Thanks Oista,

Did you go with the nitrogas shocks or the foam cell ones ? i hear the nitrogas shocks (although good) can have a tendency to fade a bit once they are warmed up (like on corrugations). I've opted for the foam cell at this stage, little bit more

I've already locked in greaseable shackles too

richard

[PADDLES]

g'day richard, we put an ironman kit under our 105 cruiser. we don't go hardcore offroad at all, but hit the beach and dirt roads a bit and it seems fine. what are the symptoms of the "fade" you have heard about?

[Richard]

Apparently the corrugations work the shocks so much the oil boils and they don't respond (you get cavitation). The foam cell ones have a foam layer that separates the gas and oil, allowing full oil contact with the outer casing to radiate heat away from the shock and they have a bigger bore (more oil) to prolong the buildup of heat

[BenDover]

Apparently the corrugations work the shocks so much the oil boils and they don't respond. The foam cell ones have more insulation and a bigger shaft to prolong the buildup of heat

Yep, thats right. The bigger the bore and shaft the stronger. "A 25mm OD piston with 100kg on it will compress twice as far as a 50mm OD piston with the same weight on it". Means alot less stress and heat. Then the shaft and hole size/number of holes/angle of holes etc etc come into play.

Your best bet is to go to carrolsprings for your springs. They make most of the springs anyway and cheaper. They can help you with castor, spring pack, diff location and shackle length and angles.

AHH sorry mate, just saw your in cairns. Scratch that last bit.

[PADDLES]

yeah, i know about the heat issue, we used to have the same issue with our rally car, you couldn't touch the damper, it'd burn your hand.

the thing i really wanted to know though was what you have heard is the actual symptoms of the "fade" because i can't say that i ever noticed any loss in performance in our race car ( a real good driver probably might) and certainly have never noticed a loss in performance in the 4wd.

for example, i actually used a set of koni straight oil dampers in an old hilux 4wd for about 13 years/480000km's, i went through 3 sets of springs on the same dampers. the koni's don't even have gas in them (the gas is supposed to reduce the cavitation by introducing pressure) and i never had any issues. the cavitation actually occurs from the oil going through the valving, that is what generates the heat. i guess i'm trying to say that it may not be worth spending the extra for the foam cell ones if you don't do a weipa run every month. if i remember right there was quite a premium in price and i was just being a tight@rse.

[Richard]

yeah can't say i've ever experienced it either and i've done quite a few klms on dirt with corrugations too. We used to head out chasing pigs for the weekend and do 1200klms in a 3 day trip and not touch a single bit of bitumen. Can't say i ever noticed it then and that was with the stock gear.

The foam cell ones in the Ironman stuff (41mm bore, 18mm piston) is only about $40 a shock difference and I've neglected the whole suspension for too long so i thought i'd go with the better ones. Still cheap compared to some other brands so i thought why not..

also going with new springs, torsion bars, greaseable shackles and pins, new foam cell steering dampner (not the RTC one) and all new PU bushes of course. They are going to check out the ball joints, etc while they have it apart too because the hilux's IFS can tend to get a bit of play in them by about the 140k mark (which mine has just hit)

[PADDLES]

so i was being a tight@rse over 160 bucks then .............. that'd be right

i reckon the ironman kits are good value, i guess time will tell how long they last

[GBC]

I've got the same ifs kit from ironman that you're looking at for a 99 lux.
It has the nitro gas shocks (foam cells simply won't fit on the front of a holden - too wide)
To date I've had no issues with fade on corrugations etc.

Having said that if the foams fitted, that's what I would have got.

Unless you're running 33's and heavy sunraysiers or something I doubt you need to worry about fade with ifs and any 'decent' shock - beam axles etc cop it much worse due to the sprung weight they throw around.

The rear springs are holding up just fine after almost 40kms. I'd recommend their adjustable overrider rear spring as well if you change the loading of the car at all.

[rockfisho]

Ben is on the right money about the idea of reducing pressure in the shocks by using bigger ones. however he has teh ratio wrong. Double the OD of the shock and you will reduce the load (or internal shock pressure) by 4 times. Im running tough dog big bore foam cells in my 80 at the moment. going strong sofar.

cheers

Owen

[Richard]

Thanks Owen,

Any idea what the OD of the Tough Dog ones are?

I think I'll notice any improvement over the stock gear as I know they have been on the way out for a couple of years now but knowing that i've only been a bitumen bandit pretyt much over the last couple of years i haven't really worried about it.

Got a trip to the Cape planned next year though so trying ot get things in order.

Richard

[OISTA]

Got the plain old gas ones mate. I'll be upgrading to a foam cell shock.

[Richard]

well I've had it fitted and have noticed quite a bit of improvement. My old suspension was pretty shagged though so that wasn't hard. On advice rfom the guys at the shop, went with the constant load (200kg) setup (rather than the comfort or performance)

Less body roll around corners and less nose diving underneath heavy braking are two obvious things that changed. I'm now also not getting jarred through to my bones from every little bump, some have just turned into a bit of noise (it is still a hilux though for some bumps). I can feel there's a lot more travel now in the front suspension and in the rear. The car body itself doesn't seem to move as much when going over larger bumps slowly. The torsion bar must have really been at it's end in the front.

Now just have to get it offroad for a bit of a test. There's a little section down near the side of the Mulgrave River here that will be perfect for it. I went there last weekend with the old suspension in so i could compare this weekend.

Can't wait !