Yes, the boat was much better as a result.
No, my boat performed fine without the need for a foil.
Just wondering how many people have fitted a foil to their tiller steer tinnies to improve hull attitude at medium/low speed cruising speeds, or (as some foil models claim) to increase their top end speed.
I used to have a 474 centre console which had an 80hp with foil fitted when I bought it and it performed much better with it on, in as so far I could slow right down and still stay on the plane. Totally different boat when I took it off for a trial.
I am a bit reluctant to jump straight in and drill holes in my brand new Yamaha when it arives so will try it for a while without a foil, but just thought I would see what others have done.
The sports 300 foils looked pretty good in BCF today for $150.
Cheers
I was also looking at the hydrofoil at bcf the other day and thinking about getting one. I have a stacer 399 proline angler with a 30 yami on the back but like you am not so sure on drilling holes just to test it out??? Let us know if you do end up getting one.
I fitted a permatrim foil to my Yammy 40 (tiller) when I first got it, and yes they do get you onto the plane a bit quicker. I have always been a little disappointed in the top speed though which on my 4.2m stacer was a gps measured 24knots on average. Anyway I've always suspected the foil would create a bit more drag in the water and so recently removed it to check if the top end improved, which it did by 3 knots. So I'm now getting 27 knots out of it and although it gets onto the plane a bit slower the handling etc are fine without it so I think I'll just leave it off.....
Wish I hadn't drilled holes in the cavitation plate to fit the damn thing.
your foil should be clear of the water
SE Sport 200 for a 40 HP? check the size of the anti cav plate.Originally Posted by geoffmck
40HP is the cut off point for changing between the 200 and 300, and there is a fair bit of size difference.
the SE Sport 300 will fit the largest of outboards, ie, up to 300 HP etc, and I wouldn't want that much foil on a little outboard.
http://www.sesport.com/5_29.asp
http://www.sesport.com/5_32.asp
also, some boats need them, and others don't. some boats get really good performance with them, and others turn into dogs.
all depends on the particular boat and its own particular set up
cheers
Mick
Thanks Mick, the 200 looks more like the go. They didn't have one on display so I didn't know they existed. Searches on the forums bring up a lot of support for the Permatrim brand as well. Agree some boats need and others don't. My last half cab was fine without one. That's why I will try without one first. Another point that others have raised is that they are good for when you are towing a tube etc. at mid range speed, keeping you on the plane better.
I had one on my old 50hp that was pinched off my boat.
It did get you out of the hole quicker and allowed you to plane at lower speeds, and offered maybe a small amount of stability.
I have a new engine now and am yet to put another foil on. Have been watching it over time and don't reckon I'll put one on.
Cheers
Jim
Bassman, my boat before the last one was a 2005 Stacer Seahorse with a 2005 30hp Yamaha CV and my top speed was 47 kph, 1 up (gps measured) which equates to around 25 knots. 27 knots does not seem quick enough for a 40hp, or do you have the boat loaded right up? Is yours the 3 cylinder model or the CV? What size prop are you running?I fitted a permatrim foil to my Yammy 40 (tiller) when I first got it, and yes they do get you onto the plane a bit quicker. I have always been a little disappointed in the top speed though which on my 4.2m stacer was a gps measured 24knots on average. Anyway I've always suspected the foil would create a bit more drag in the water and so recently removed it to check if the top end improved, which it did by 3 knots. So I'm now getting 27 knots out of it and although it gets onto the plane a bit slower the handling etc are fine without it so I think I'll just leave it off.....
Wish I hadn't drilled holes in the cavitation plate to fit the damn thing.
Thanks geoffmck, I have the 4.2 seahorse and the 3 pot 40 hp carbied yammy. I do have 2 big batteries on board (one f/ward & the other aft) which probably equates to one large person, but yeah it has never been quick. The motor only has 100 hrs on it & I've had the whole rig since new. Also have a min kota electric on the bow which undoubtedly causes wind resistance too. The prop is the std yamaha alloy job.
I think the CV may be fuel injected which would explain better performance than the carbie model.
Generally happy with the boat but would be happier if it could pull 30 knots...
CV is not fuel injected, and indeed is the cheaper model in the range, foils are invariably fitted to boats to cover up some other setup problem, if it produces some increase on top speed, then something is very wrong.
Bassfan get a portable tacho or next time it is at the dealer get it put in the test tank at WOT as it can't possibly be making full revs. If they sold you the package it would be nice if they would set up properly,tune it, prop it right rather than you run your first 100hrs overloading the motor. First stop is talk to the others here with the same boats and check what engine height and props they are running. Might just be your motor too low.
Beware with wing style foils on some setups if you are towing tubes and doig tight turns at speed as they can bite the water when you don't want them to causing instability. Following breaking seas can be a problem as well. Can be worse will manually trimmed tiller steer as well because the tiller can put a lot of force onto the driver but via a cable and NFB steering obviously not as much. In a straight line on the plane the motors cav plate , hence the foil, should be at least a inch out of the water.
One of the things most often forgotten about foils is that at rest they act like a great shock absorber slowing pitch and roll a bit.
They take a hell of a lot of force so make sure they are fitted right ( it will be used as a step whether you like it or not) and warranty claims on pivot points, trim units, cracked cav plates, cracked housings may all be rejected unless fitted as a standard item by the dealer.
In theory lower speed planing and more trim in that circumstance and be the only advantages over a properly set up boat but many people don't have that to start with and then overload it as well.. Guess they are cheaper than a couple of 6 inch hull extensions or a lighter motor.
Should add to the poll
My boat was overloaded
I am a fat bastard
I did it as I put a heavy 4 stroke on a boat not designed for the weight.
All my boat weight batteries, captain and fuel were all at the transom.
Yeah it was easier or cheaper than buying the right boat & motor to start with or then setting it up correctly - ie a bandaide.
Yes cause I enjoy drilling holes in a new boat motor - gives me a warm fuzzy sense of accompishment and shows my dominance over a piece of metal becuase teh manufacturers in all their wisdom, computer modelling, boat tests liketo support after market oarts makers by not increasing the size of the cav plate at the factory ( even as a option they could charge for) from out of the box. Maybe they are saving cardboard?.
the se sport does everything stated on the packaging. good gear
You can buy a clamp kit for the SE Sport which allows it to be fitted without drilling holes in the cav plate. At top speed the foil should be clear of the water so it definately shouldn't effect top speed. If it does, your motor may be set too low which is causing the lower top speed. If it is a punt, do not fit a Stingray, the SE Sport is the best there is.
Thanks mate, they had a sign up about the clamp for the SEvSports but did not have one there to look at. I am leaning towards this brand/model if it turns out I want to try a foil out. Gotta be happy about no drilling of holes to start with.
Cormorant nailed it well IMO.
On tinnys it is virtually impossible to raise the engine high enough for the foil to clear the water at cruising speeds...this is where they fall down entirely and wreck what could have been a good boat.
A person needs a very good reason to fit a foil and that will always be something peculiar to them or their rig and only them or their but without first knowing what RPM and speed the boat will pull at WOT a person couldn't do anything worse than fit a foil.
cheers fnq
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