Are boaties polluting waterways as much as the Pacific Adventurer

[TheRealAndy]

For your referecnce, typical chemicals found in petrol:

Toluene
Xylene
Pentane
Trimethylbenzenes
Benzene
Butane
Ethylbenzene
Heptane
Cyclohexane
n-Hexane
n-Octane
Ethanol
Naphthalene
Trimethylbenzene
Isopentane
Styrene
Methyl tert - butyl ether
Ethyl tert - butyl ether
Tertiary - Amyl methyl ether
Alkanes, Cycloalkanes, Alkenes, Aromatic hydrocarbons

Many of these are carconegens. Thats what you are putting through your boat. How much of this ends up in the water is anyones guess. I could not find any references to it. Perhaps a study has never been done. In any case, I would suggest that any by product from burning petrol and oil would be so greatly diluted in the water that it would be immeasurable. Run off from roads alone would create more pollution.

[bluefin59]

How is it that fools like this get to make statements that effect peoples recreational activities without any true scientific evidence it really is a shame we all may have to suffer because some goose gets some air time on the radio , i am starting to get really annoyed by these sudo experts ...matt

[PinHead]

ditto Matt..and he has published quite a lot of info on this matter..and some basic maths and logic will soon see the flaws in it.
He also uses the name of
"Eco Friendly Fishing Association (EFFA"

Anyone know anything about this group or is it a one man band ???

[FNQCairns]

For your referecnce, typical chemicals found in petrol:

Toluene
Xylene
Pentane
Trimethylbenzenes
Benzene
Butane
Ethylbenzene
Heptane
Cyclohexane
n-Hexane
n-Octane
Ethanol
Naphthalene
Trimethylbenzene
Isopentane
Styrene
Methyl tert - butyl ether
Ethyl tert - butyl ether
Tertiary - Amyl methyl ether
Alkanes, Cycloalkanes, Alkenes, Aromatic hydrocarbons

Many of these are carconegens. Thats what you are putting through your boat. How much of this ends up in the water is anyones guess. I could not find any references to it. Perhaps a study has never been done. In any case, I would suggest that any by product from burning petrol and oil would be so greatly diluted in the water that it would be immeasurable. Run off from roads alone would create more pollution.

Yeah like you say it goes through the engine and then is converted to what is typical emission components.

BTW I own a ULP camp stove and toast on that tastes pretty close to toast on a gas camp stove..it's the heavy metals in our emission's that can cause problems and one reason we have twc3 as our boating industry oil, it is not possible for TCW3 to contain heavy metals within it's additive pack...another typical example of modern real science that yet again is way ahead of the Zealots.

cheers fnq

[PinHead]

Yeah like you say it goes through the engine and then is converted to what is typical emission components.

BTW I own a ULP camp stove and toast on that tastes pretty close to toast on a gas camp stove..it's the heavy metals in our emission's that can cause problems and one reason we have twc3 as our boating industry oil, it is not possible for TCW3 to contain heavy metals within it's additive pack...another typical example of modern real science that yet again is way ahead of the Zealots.

cheers fnq

please explain

[FNQCairns]

For the oil to be certified as a marine 2 stroke oil (tcw3) one portion of the absolute requirements is it must not contain heavy metals.

This requirement is not expected on any other internal combustion oil, sump, gear etc that I am aware of.

cheers fnq

[PinHead]

thanks for that

[bluefin59]

I hear that channel 9 will be running a story about this very think on tonights news ,oh i hope i am wrong just what we need is more ilinformed garbage for the greenie tree hugging losers to throw up to prove how we are supposedly destroying the bay . ...matt

[reidy_g]

I'm still waiting for Garry Fooks to answer some simple questions from a debate on this very forum over two years ago. He was unable to answer these questions then, and I doubt he can now.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...149#post658149

What proportion of environmental damage is directly attributed to the usage of 2 stroke outboards? What specifically is the damage? What is the evidence to support the claim? Has the evidence stood up to statistical validation?

Without any such evidence to support this move, one can only conclude this sustained move to ban 2 stroke engines has no basis in science but rather is based on nothing more than politics and symbolism. I doubt there are any surprises about that.

Garry, still waiting for an answer to these simple questions.

[mudrunner]

I'm still waiting for Garry Fooks to answer some simple questions from a debate on this very forum over two years ago. He was unable to answer these questions then, and I doubt he can now.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...149#post658149

What proportion of environmental damage is directly attributed to the usage of 2 stroke outboards? What specifically is the damage? What is the evidence to support the claim? Has the evidence stood up to statistical validation?

Without any such evidence to support this move, one can only conclude this sustained move to ban 2 stroke engines has no basis in science is based on nothing more politics and symbolism. I doubt there are any surprises about that.

Garry, still waiting for an answer to these simple questions.

the only ones asked for the science are fishermen......and we arent government funded.

[charlie09]

Hey Reidy can u supply Mr Fooks email address and we can all bombard him with the same email as you.

Cheers

[mudrunner]

For your referecnce, typical chemicals found in petrol:

Toluene
Xylene
Pentane
Trimethylbenzenes
Benzene
Butane
Ethylbenzene
Heptane
Cyclohexane
n-Hexane
n-Octane
Ethanol
Naphthalene
Trimethylbenzene
Isopentane
Styrene
Methyl tert - butyl ether
Ethyl tert - butyl ether
Tertiary - Amyl methyl ether
Alkanes, Cycloalkanes, Alkenes, Aromatic hydrocarbons

Many of these are carconegens. Thats what you are putting through your boat. How much of this ends up in the water is anyones guess. I could not find any references to it. Perhaps a study has never been done. In any case, I would suggest that any by product from burning petrol and oil would be so greatly diluted in the water that it would be immeasurable. Run off from roads alone would create more pollution.

also, im not sure what you are trying to achieve with this post?

[reidy_g]

Hey Reidy can u supply Mr Fooks email address and we can all bombard him with the same email as you.

Cheers

g.fooks@uq.net.au

[Captain_Zero]

I heard part of the story on tonight's Nine News. I was helping my two year old daughter with her spaghetti bolognese at the time so did not hear all of the story but they did talk about a proposal to phase out two stroke motors to stop selling them but if you have one you can keep using it.

Any one else see it?

[oldboot]

If you look at most of the substances in the real andy's list.
You will not that almost all of them are some for of flamable fuel substance that occur as part of the product as refined or as additives to manipulate the burning properties.....

A great many things are carcoagens that isn't too much of a worry, most mineral oil products and hydrocarbons are carcenogens under some circumstances......hell overheated olive oil is carcenogenic ( the circumstances under which they are carconegenic is another matter).

Like most things we take for granted fuel is a chemical complex, that while it's performance may be specified and reasonably consistent it actual chemical make up varies.


All of those chemicals will be some sort of hydrocarbon, alcahol or similar related chemical.
all of them will burn entirely under the right circumstances, resulting in majority water and carbon dioxide emmission product.........I do not know sufficient to say what other products result.....but those products are small in comparison to the results of incomplete combustion.


Now it is those incomplete products that are the real polutants from all our engines.......unburnt fuel eliments that come out, as they went in, is an issue with two stroke, oxides of nitrogen is a major whipping boy and reasonably blamed for smog issues, and carbon monoxide also is a major component.

Now all of these things come out of every internal combustion engine on earth....all of them break down, react into something else or are dispersed, given half an opportunity

The ammount of the poluting output of all our recreational boating engines will be very minor in comparison to other sources.

When you consider that the average ocean going ship counts its fuel consumption in tonnes an hour......one ship passing thru the port of brisbane will consume more fuel and produce more emmissions that the entire moreton bay recreational fleet.

Now one of the biggest improvements we have made in the last century is removing lead from domestic fuel.....leaded fuel lasts better and arguably works better but it was the major source of lead in air and water.......removing lead from fuel IS a major step with a clear impact and benifit......banning old tech two stroke motors is not.

Othe heavy metals such as lead ( among other things), are used in oils as friction modifiers, viscosity modifiers, colourants and other stuff......All these additives drip onto our roads and wash into the sea.

As for the commercial sector and old technology 2 stroke.........most of the commercial operators will replace their engines with either new technology 2 stroke or 4 stroke motors on an economic basis.....simply the the cost of fuel.

I costed a 60 HP yamaha recently.....it would cost me only a few hundred more to buy a 4 stroke than a relativly moder old tech 2 stroke......I would easily save that in fuel in a reasonable time.....in a high usage motor the fuel saving alone would be a reason to replace a motor.

So its all a beat up for nothing.

Now the message her too is if you want to do something about your existing two stroke motor.....Upgrade the oil you use.... go to the best quality oil you can, compatable with your motor.

I can say first hand it can make an immediate improvement.....over a year ago, I cut my young brother inlaws 30 HP mercury over from the standard mercury 2 stroke oil to the premium 2 stroke oil...( less that a $2 a litre more) an immediate reduction in smoke and smell and the motor sounds and runs better........I only mention mercury to to show consistencey within a brand.

enough for now.

cheers