Are boaties polluting waterways as much as the Pacific Adventurer

[oldboot]

ya cant get more mass out that than you put in....

there in lies another disproportonate measure........we know waht we are maasuring going in.....and you bet they are not countig air......exactly what are they measuing going out....and how do they measure the effect on the environment.


This is another one of thise systematic BULL$H!&, things................if we quote the quantity of something is must be real........politicians do it by saying how much money they have spent or how many jobs they have created or whatever.
they are all trying to quantify something that can not be measured.....in many cases not even estimated.
Take the clasic example of the figures thet fisheries plucked out of the air on the smapper fishery.
Figures and quantities where there are none to be had.

YOU CANT MEASURE EVERYTHING......get used to the idea.

We have seen quite a number of times various estimates of the "Cost of the oil spill".....there are no quantities of figures to measure the effects....all they can do is flash fugures out, money that they have suposedly spent.

cheers

[bennyboy]

Old Boot, how do you think your motor works
You get a tiny amount of petrol, give it spark, it changes to a gas and because there is a huge amount more gas than there was liquid your piston gets driven up and your motor works.
You get alot more out than what you put in

[oldboot]

Mate you can not get more mass out than you put in.

I think they call it the "first law of thermodynamics"

Mass and energy are preserved........the only way you can convert mass to energy and energy to mass is via a neucular process.............If you have a neucular process in your boat, I am sure the greenies want to know about that.

So we mostly burn things, which is a chemical process between two largley unstable items (items that have excess energy in their atomic structure) fuel and oxygen and we harness the byproduct, heat.

When we burn something the volume occupied by the output is many times greater input volume but no greater in mass than the inputs.... largely because we input fuel as solids and liquids
This expansion goes hand in hand with the heat and that is how most fuel engines work.

the only reliable way to measure "stuff" is by mass.

The energy content of fuel is proportional to its mass.

If you burn something......the two largest volume products are carbon dioxide and water.
Because we burn mostly hydrocarbons........the hydrogen combines with oxygen to produce water and the carbon combines with oxygen to create carbon dioxide.

The vast majority of the mass exiting the exhaust pipe will be carbon dioxide and water.......the remaining products will be products of inefficient combustion and introduced additives such as lubricants....most of which also burn.

now if you are going to count carbon dioxide as a pollutant........which is questionable... you may get more mass out than you put in in fuel..... even that is questionable.

but the actual "polutants" much of which will be ash (rude term) and unburnt hydrocarbons.

So explain to me how you get more polutants out than you put fuel in, measured by mass.

cheers

[oldboot]

Now if you are going to call carbon dioxide a polutant.....I sugest you shut up and stop breathing because one human would probably produce more carbon doixide in a year than most of our low hours outboard motors.


Now seriously.......all this trying to quantify stuff.....its BS.

We need to get back to the basics of being responsible with the environment.
Not wasting stuff, having a care what happens to our rubbish, planting trees, preventing errosion........and so on....OHOH and not having everybody expecting to live the lifestyle of a rich basta###.

We don't need to know about the hole in the O zone layer or the carbon economy or any number of acedemicaly designed enviromental disasters............we need to stop being vandalistic, careless, pricks.......especilay the very rich and the multinationals.

cheers

[Horse]

As far I know mass is a constant. To suggest that I have put tons of pollution through my boat is a joke. Garry Fooks has lost a lot of credibility with me over his wild statements

[FNQCairns]

From memory everyone except gary kept saying "oil" he let it ride to keep the con going through deliberate misconception and not correcting that he actually means only the gaseous portions of emission... his "pollution".

OIL: TCW3 is biodegradable, at the appropriate organism level they eat it up...literally, grossly low levels (like these in magnitude) are so low they simply do not even adversely alter the holding capacity for the environment they have been placed in they can actually increase it...a better term but tongue in cheek could be outboard organism fodder, believe it or not.

cheers fnq

[Black_Rat]

Fark me

I'll walk backwards from Brisbane to Burke nude if the deposits from 2 strokes outweighes the run-off that enters the bay and surrounding foreshores each year !

Damo

[Black_Rat]

Point is this is a media beat-up

Time and time again it's the crap that runs off the main land that is the issue

IMHO just another stab at regulating our recreational fishing lifestyle.

Damo

[PinHead]

Fark me

I'll walk backwards from Brisbane to Burke nude if the deposits from 2 strokes outweighes the run-off that enters the bay and surrounding foreshores each year !

Damo

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Not that Damo...too scary a thought to even consider.

[PADDLES]

it's way worse than that black rat, it's not a beat up, it's a distraction for the general public.

hot on the heels of our bay and it's tributaries getting another poor water quality report card (yes it just keeps going frikkin backwards) we have someone (gary fooks) coming forward and saying that 2s outboards are polluting like the pacific adventurer. now joe average public are going to add 2 and 2 together and blame the 2s outboards for the krappy water quality. this has effectively thrown a dummy to the people of queensland letting the government slip down the blind side to avoid a tackle on the real reasons behind the declining water quality.

personally i think that gary could not have timed his chats to the media any worse than this, it's effectively taken all focus off the real issue, which is runoff.

[TimiBoy]

I'm amazed Gary has done this. I thought he was better than that. If you took every recreational boat off the Bay little would change, because the pollution is mostly caused by other, larger and more difficult sources to control.

Gary, you have given our Government yet another opportunity to procrastinate on doing anything meaningful to fix the Bay. Your credibility among Recreational Anglers has taken a major hit, too.

Tim

[PinHead]

Gary says that State Govt figures give him his information..how the hell would ANYBODY know how much fuel is purchased and used in old technology outboards??????

270,000 l per month ????

that equates to 9000 litre/day??

at 50l/hr that is then 180 hours of solid boating of old technology 2 strokes each and every day of the month...I find that a bit hard to believe.

[charlie09]

Just a thought. We all saw the mess that the Pacific Adventurer made with the spill. If outboards are doing the same or worse, where the hell is it? I havent seen anything at all. Have you guys?

[oldboot]

Fark me

I'll walk backwards from Brisbane to Burke nude if the deposits from 2 strokes outweighes the run-off that enters the bay and surrounding foreshores each year !

Damo

Now we are talking Damo,...........the sensible environment walk..........thousands uggly middle aged of fishers, 4WDers, and shooters walk nude Brisbane to Bourke over envirtonmental doshonesty and foolishness.....How's that effect your visual amenity



AND yes it is a beat up......................it fails to mention the key issue which is EFFECT.

Dumping thousands of litres of largely unrefined black sticky oil at once......compared to very small ammounts of largly biodegradable products very well dispersed and might I say well oxygenated.

There is another serously understated fact that (so called mineral) oil is organic in origin and given the right conditions there are agreat many little grreeblies that munch it up.....particularly if it is presented in well dispersed small quantities.

Again..........the vast majority of people have no grasp on what happens to the waste we produce.......there is an over obsession with oil as a polutant.........there are a great many other polutants that are considerably more persistent and intractable in the environment.........chemicals, pesticides, heavy metals.....and one of the worst......plastics.

I dare say that the houshold kitchen tidy has more and greater long term environmental impact than any outboard motor.

I have been taking note of how much plastic comes and goes from my house on a daily basis.

When I was young, a great majority of things were packed and wrapped in paper or cardboard.....an entirely renewable and biodegradable product.....plastic bags were a special and precious thing.....my mother used to was them and hang then on the line to dry.

Bit everything ( nearly) that comes home from the supermarket is wrapped inplastic.

And unless burned....most plastic remains persistent in the environment.

Oh and don't start about industrial packaging.....anybody who installs product for a living will know how much packaging has to be got rid of at the end of the day.

One of the most difficult to handle is styrofoam.

So lay off my poor old 2 stroke.

cheers

[FNQCairns]

The speedo tog and fishing rod walk for the environment...Can Not wait to see that on the state news!
cheers fnq