flare expiry date

[seatime]

1. Why then do many still think they're a back-up safety option?

2. Is is that many people see themselves above the law? Is there other reasons for inappropriate action of this type?

We are getting a little off topic from the the original question asked, though similar expired flares Qs continue to get asked.

Who knows where the 'urban myth' that carrying recently expired flares somehow adds to vessels and it's passengers safety came from??

Possibly the idea was originally developed and promulgated by a government maritime bureaucrat with little or no marine experience, probably like the majority of present MSQ employees?
There are MSQ officers today rated as "Compliance Officers" that is - they can issue infringement notices, that have zero marine backgrounds, fact, I kid you not!!
MSQ 'orals' examiners are able to gather seatime for advanced qualifications on the basis of the exams they have conducted, they don't even need to step foot on a ship!
These are the kinds of incompetent boobs that determine what we as the regular rec boating public have to adhere to.

It's no wonder they are considered as retarded in some way... it's because they are!
The commercial sector will be coming under the AMSA 'tinnie to tanker' umbrella very soon,,, a national recreational regulatory boating approach would be a very good move too.

[SatNav]

1. Then responsible people with the power need to make a clear and concise direction on this issue and this will then stop those who justify their actions with excuses. Leaving this to individuals is completely flawed as we all know.

2. Are flares sold in WA "different" to the the rest of the world?

3. How can an out of date flare be classed as "operational"

4. It continues to be apparent that people in gov making some of the statements do not understand and have no authority making such statements.

5. While the current situation continues people will continue to make excuses and abuse the system without any due regard.

[the baker]

I think the reason why some people keep the out of date fares, is the self preservation issue & $$$$ dollars. Why go and spend the money when you have already got them.
And there is a reason why there is an expiry date on flares. There is the possibility of the flares being dangerous and someone being hurt & litigation. Also people in general have a different interpretation of what might classed as good condition, and what is not so therefore a general standard is set.

Me Personally I don't want something in my hand that is potentially DANGEROUS

Dave.

[Malcolm W]

1. Then responsible people with the power need to make a clear and concise direction on this issue and this will then stop those who justify their actions with excuses. Leaving this to individuals is completely flawed as we all know.

As we all know thats just a personal opinion. I would suggest many individuals on this site are capable of making the right decisions.

Are flares sold in WA "different" to the the rest of the world?

No?, but checked the NSW boating handbook and it's the same. Dont know if the other states are.

3. How can an out of date flare be classed as "operational"

When our local sea rescue let off 10 year+ flares and all work perfectly ok. It's a second spare set and as they are out of date every 3 years, they are no older than 3-6 years and in good condition.

Would you class operational as in date only??. They may be 6 months old and in worse condition. A check of safety gear is encouraged for every trip.

There is no evidence to suggest these are unsafe.

4. It continues to be apparent that people in gov making some of the statements do not understand and have no authority making such statements.

We are given guidelines by the governing bodies and do our best to educate the public. So far it appears to work well. You sound like the very people you mock.

5. While the current situation continues people will continue to make excuses and abuse the system without any due regard.

Take the emotion out and its hardly exuses and abuse, just another point of view.

I guess there appears to be divided opinion on this. Thanks for the discussion. I will bring it up for discussion with the governing bodies here.

[QF3 MROCP]

Contacts at Pains Wessex tell me that the expired flare date stamp which has month & year is EXPIRED at the LAST DAY of the MONTH- as per manufacturers spec...

Honestly, to keep old flares which MIGHT work when you have 3, four or three old children on board with their life jackets on, ready to jump into the ocean and hope to god that some poor unpaid rescue volunteer will come out to look for them in the dark at 7 o'clock at night is a good idea.. go for it..

I just hope the state coroner has a good acceptance of your action as SKIPPER responsible in saving $60 for a new set!!!!

Come on WA... Wait Awhile.. the rest of Australia has move on...

Peter

[Marlin_Mike]

Fair dinkum theres soem cheapo people out there......50 bucks a set and you want to risk your freaking life on an expired set???????????????????????? Some people shouldnt be allowed near boats and water. Do yourself a favour, dump the expired set and buy a new set.....................dont be a cheap barstard



Mike

[QF3 MROCP]

Marlin!!.... I'll be out of a highly paid Volunteer Job if everyone starts using commensence....

Stop this attitude of Safety of Life at Sea!!... If us Volunteers become redundant.. we'll be mowing grass on the weekends..

[Malcolm W]

Contacts at Pains Wessex tell me that the expired flare date stamp which has month & year is EXPIRED at the LAST DAY of the MONTH- as per manufacturers spec...

Honestly, to keep old flares which MIGHT work when you have 3, four or three old children on board with their life jackets on, ready to jump into the ocean and hope to god that some poor unpaid rescue volunteer will come out to look for them in the dark at 7 o'clock at night is a good idea.. go for it..

Once again you have failed to read the post, It's an extra set over and above the up to date set. I still dont see why you have an issue with this. What you advocate here is if your in-date set are let off and not seen you will have nothing. This is just ensuring a back up set for those very children you are worried about. I know what boat I'd rather be in.

I just hope the state coroner has a good acceptance of your action as SKIPPER responsible in saving $60 for a new set!!!!
Ditto to the above reply!!!!

Come on WA... Wait Awhile.. the rest of Australia has move on...

Dont know how you can say this as NSW is the same and having an extra set is over and obove needs, I would say that"s just another step forward to what you have

Some people dont like the idea of having a spare set and I understand their concerns. This is just another option and as I feel most will only buy a single in date set where is the harm in keeping a perfectly good set JUST in case.

If either of you (2 posts above)had any common sense you would see I'm advocating safety over and above what you normally have.

[QF3 MROCP]

Who's the professional giving the opinion apart from the manufacturer that the expired set is a good set.. I've seen so called current sets perform as duds!!

Why would responsible skippers be reluctant to have more than one set onboard? Surely a current set or two including the grab bag set would be the minimum...

[Malcolm W]

Who's the professional giving the opinion apart from the manufacturer that the expired set is a good set.

The same could be said Who's the professional giving the opinion apart from the manufacturer that the expired set is not a good set.

.. I've seen so called current sets perform as duds!!


Wow! current sets as duds, that just backs it up that you should have a second set--In or out of date

Why would responsible skippers be reluctant to have more than one set onboard? Surely a current set or two including the grab bag set would be the minimum...

Most will only have what is required by law, it's only a way of getting people to have a second set. The other way would be make it law.

[Hornet Rider]

Most will only have what is required by law, it's only a way of getting people to have a second set. The other way would be make it law.

Malcolm, we're off topic & I get your point but to advocate 'it's only a way of getting people to have a second set.' is to advocate non-compliance with relative legislation, but more importantly is to advocate that keeping out of date pyrotechnic devices on-board makes good sense from a safety back-up perspective. It doesn't. Stowing sufficient flares on-board to cater to your boating emergency needs, something the skipper must predetemine, makes good sense but only if they are in-date. There's an unmanaged risk with out of date flares, that can only be mitigated by removing them & replacing them with in-date flares.

cheers, HR

[Malcolm W]

Malcolm, we're off topic & I get your point but to advocate 'it's only a way of getting people to have a second set.' is to advocate non-compliance with relative legislation, but more importantly is to advocate that keeping out of date pyrotechnic devices on-board makes good sense from a safety back-up perspective. It doesn't. Stowing sufficient flares on-board to cater to your boating emergency needs, something the skipper must predetemine, makes good sense but only if they are in-date. There's an unmanaged risk with out of date flares, that can only be mitigated by removing them & replacing them with in-date flares.

cheers, HR

Thanks HR, Yes and this is something I have mentioned to the DPI here and wait for a response. It's not non compliance here, exactly the opposite it's encouraged by the authorities. We also advocate managing the risk by regular inspections. It is a difficult one as both arguments have merit.