Garrett recieves Qld Government report on Traveston dam

[finga]

Farmers have had to do this for years. We get to pay for our irrigation licence and quota, whether we get to use it or not. Why should it be different elsewhere? I agree that this governments water management is terrible.

I heard on the grapevine that the government were considering putting a yearly license type fee on each tank in use...just like farmers pay for water out of the dam they have paid to be put in and catches the water that falls on their land.
Just think about it. They know your roof area and they know the size of the tank they gave a bit towards to.
Some councils already of the software sorted for the billing.
Scarey eh.

I'm just peeved that everything is left to the last minute before anything happens in this state. It's a bit hard to fix the problem in a week after the symptoms have been building up for 20 odd years.

Most of the suggested solutions to the water problems are just little stop gap remedies.
As the SE gets more congested with people the problem is only going to get worse. Especially seeing as the places people live are getting smaller and smaller ie population density is getting denser and denser.

If they build the dam (anywhere) it's only going to be a resolution for 10 or so years...if that, so they should be looking at solutions to the water problem that will be evident after the current problem has been solved.

Getting a tank is not that easy.
A lot of people barely live week to week and cannot afford the initial expenditure even with the grants or they cannot afford to have the money invested and wait the 6-12 weeks for the grant to turn up.
We are in the later boat. We have the money to do it and can afford it but if anything happens like the car needs work or the hotwater blows up we're buggered. Especially seeing I live of money from an insurance company that does not pay every-now-again for some reason or another.

[PinHead]

Im against most of you blokes on this one. Stuff damning someone elses back yard because you want more water in a capital city. Has every house in SEQ got a full size water tank? Why not? Brisbane itself (the major water user) actually gets pleanty of water every year just not its catchment area to the west. If every house inSEQ had a large water tank this would be a huge step forward! Unitl this happens (made mandatory if possible to install a tank) then this waste of money dam should be shelved for good.

Here's a solution not just for SEQ but a infastructure project that would reap rewards for 80% of Australia.

1. Anna makes it madatory for all QLDers to instal a x size water tank within 2 years if they dont already have one. They get 1 or 2 years of free rates (the equiv of the cost of install) and after 2 years anyone that doesn't comply gets fines DOUBLE the rate discount.

2. The FED funds a pipe program where every major water supply in QLD is interconnected. They can build a train line from Darwin to Adelaide they can build this. Nth QLD has massive rainfall every year. If a percentage of overflow from this area was diverted to the south and from wivenhoe to Toowoomba and from there to the start of the murray darling system there is not only SEQ's water problems solved a big step towards NSW, VIC and SA water problems solved too.

Imagine the Murray Darling system with almost limmitless water???? Imagine the food that could not only supply Australia but the rest of the world? AND the taxes the Gov't could take from that (paying for the pipe sytem and them some in years to come)???

Huge projects like that are what Australia needs to be going into debt for. Things that benefit all in the long term. We drastically need a water solution and creating more farming output is a huge doule benefit. (remember all you were hearing on the news before the GFC over took it was the WORLD FOOD SHORTAGE). Australia could be the bread basket of the world. The dollar value of this long term is huge. Yet our Twits of State and Federal governments would prefer to hand out cash so the retail sector could get a short term boost and they could annoucnce they avoided a "technical" recession because they can't see past the bloody next election!

Yep a huge 1m deep dam will look great when it rains and we'll be in the same boat as we were in 2 years ago when it doens't. I say if you don't like water restrictions in Brisbane until we get some decent leaders then move somewhere that actually has water or pay the premium!

Cheers

Chris

that idea is virtually impossible..the initial costs and maintenance costs would be astronomical. A good thought but not really viable

[PinHead]

Finga,

I said all those home capable of installing a tank. How big to be self sufficient ? I don't really know but there are thousands of people that do it every year and even if they weren't big enough to be self sufficient it would be a bloody good start. As I said Brisbane gets fairly regular water and those capable should be made to install one courtesy of rates discounts so it's not costing any more to the individual.

Using the mossie and lead excuses are just selfish cop outs for taking the easy wrong instead of the hard right!

I didn't say the pipe line would be an easy feat but it could be done. Power we have a crap load of power available and it wouldn't be running 24/7 any way. It would cost a lot but it would pretty much be an end solution. Not only for residential drinking water in SEQ but for Adelaide and a huge help for nsw vic and SA farmers.

This dam is a joke and won't solve anything.

Cheers

chris

ya think..some far more learned people that you or I seem to think there is a risk.
do a search of water tanks + dengue fever..plenty of info there.

"Quite a few scientists are concerned by the return of rainwater tanks to Australia's backyards.
Queensland researcher Tim Hurst warns residential water tanks are ideal breeding grounds for the aedes aegypti mosquito.
He says dengue fever may have been confined to tropical parts of northern Australia for the past 70 years, but substandard tanks could see the insect again heading south.
"There have been various models that have predicted it could get to New South Wales," he said.
Dr Hurst believes the dengue mosquito's southern migration could happen over the next five to 10 years, as water tanks need repairs and owners get complacent.
"People might remove screens because they're sick of cleaning them out. There might be overflows, so again they remove them," he said.
"Things like this could lead to the degradation, and there were some not-so-great companies out there whose tanks were not up to standard.""

[Mike Delisser]

that idea is virtually impossible..the initial costs and maintenance costs would be astronomical. A good thought but not really viable

It would solve a few probs if it was possible but I read somewhere that with todays best technology any water piped and pumped from NQ to SEQ would be dearer than bottled water from Wollies.

While I have some issues with the proposed Trav dam, they arn't the extinction of the Q Lungfish and M R Cod, loose rock base, 1 m deep water or low rain fall. I think most of that is a snow job (sorry Jim T) My concerns would be with the loss of superb dairy and farm land, the acquisition of people's homes & land, and I suppose (don't know much about it) the arse breathing turtle.
Cheers

BTW Greg (Pinhead) I just noticed below your avatar that you've now officially thanked some one! Well done, that wasn't too hard was it?
I hope it wasn't a slip of the mouse

[Lovey80]

I heard on the grapevine that the government were considering putting a yearly license type fee on each tank in use...just like farmers pay for water out of the dam they have paid to be put in and catches the water that falls on their land.
Just think about it. They know your roof area and they know the size of the tank they gave a bit towards to.
Some councils already of the software sorted for the billing.
Scarey eh.

I have no doubt the bastards are too mate......If we had a decent government capable of making the big decisions then we'd also have one that would make that type of council policy illegal.....We would be doing government a big favor by taking a large portion of the problem out of their hands its a kick in the teeth to be then charged for the privelege. This is not the same as a farmer daming water that could potentially run down stream to another user this is heading strait down the gutter and into the ocean.


I'm just peeved that everything is left to the last minute before anything happens in this state. It's a bit hard to fix the problem in a week after the symptoms have been building up for 20 odd years.

Most of the suggested solutions to the water problems are just little stop gap remedies.
As the SE gets more congested with people the problem is only going to get worse. Especially seeing as the places people live are getting smaller and smaller ie population density is getting denser and denser.

If they build the dam (anywhere) it's only going to be a resolution for 10 or so years...if that, so they should be looking at solutions to the water problem that will be evident after the current problem has been solved.

Getting a tank is not that easy.
A lot of people barely live week to week and cannot afford the initial expenditure even with the grants or they cannot afford to have the money invested and wait the 6-12 weeks for the grant to turn up.

Im not talking grants either... you have to pay for rates on your house right? Or if your renting the owner has to. Instead of paying for the rates you would be paying for the tank, set up and filtering system.

We are in the later boat. We have the money to do it and can afford it but if anything happens like the car needs work or the hotwater blows up we're buggered. Especially seeing I live of money from an insurance company that does not pay every-now-again for some reason or another.

Again it would all rest on a government that actually had a clue and the balls to pull it off. But as I said tanks are just part of the solution and would go a long way to helping SEQ stave off water shortages in the short term (Bandaid) giving the larger problem time to be solved.

[finga]

Again it would all rest on a government that actually had a clue and the balls to pull it off. But as I said tanks are just part of the solution and would go a long way to helping SEQ stave off water shortages in the short term (Bandaid) giving the larger problem time to be solved.

Mate, I was just thinking that this afternoon.
Someone should grow a scrotum and do something constructive instead the stop gap remedies that are happening now.

[PinHead]

It would solve a few probs if it was possible but I read somewhere that with todays best technology any water piped and pumped from NQ to SEQ would be dearer than bottled water from Wollies.

While I have some issues with the proposed Trav dam, they arn't the extinction of the Q Lungfish and M R Cod, loose rock base, 1 m deep water or low rain fall. I think most of that is a snow job (sorry Jim T) My concerns would be with the loss of superb dairy and farm land, the acquisition of people's homes & land, and I suppose (don't know much about it) the arse breathing turtle.
Cheers

BTW Greg (Pinhead) I just noticed below your avatar that you've now officially thanked some one! Well done, that wasn't too hard was it?
I hope it wasn't a slip of the mouse

bloody hell..it must have been a slip...anyone i want to thank I either say it on the board or send a pm..not as impersonal as just a random click on a button.

I have worked in a few pumping stations...100k will get one pump that will pump 5k...and when you need several to carry the amount of water required plus standby pumps it really is a no brainer that the cost is beyone comprehension.

[PinHead]

Mike, I can understand your concerns regarding peoples homes and businesses being resumed...what about the same thing happening to people for the roads around here. I know of one business was told to vacate within a month..no financial assistance..nothing. Just told to move on at their own expense..it is not right but that is what Govt's do unfortunately.

[Lovey80]

that idea is virtually impossible..the initial costs and maintenance costs would be astronomical. A good thought but not really viable

Exactly what do you call astronomical? 5 billion 100 billion? 300 billion? Didn't we just go into debt as a nation (you me and everyone else) for similar figures just so our Peanut PM could announce to the world that we avoided a recession???

This plan actually has a return to everyone in this country. Not just so we can all use enough water but in dollar terms also. Every single water plan we come up with is going to be expensive. Traveston is estimated at 1.6billion (on track record read 3 billion) plus ongoing costs. As finger says in 10 years when that is exhausted how much is the next option going to cost? Not to mention the lost jobs (revenue) and food production coming out of the region (FOR EVER). Every single option we come up with is going to be expensive. Just because my idea would be very very expensive to set up is no reason to shelve it on that ground alone. Food prices world wide are going through the roof! Daewoo just bought half of Madagascar so it can feed its population (south Korea). (edit: Daewoo's bid to buy farm land half the size of victoria was vetoed but the attempt still proves my point)
We have the arable land to produce HUGE amounts of food if we can supply the water to it. The dollar return to Australia as a nation could see our economy break top 10 in world standards. It would boost jobs in the short term to construct and long term to maintain not to mention the agriculture jobs it would create.

ya think..some far more learned people that you or I seem to think there is a risk.
do a search of water tanks + dengue fever..plenty of info there.

I don't doubt that lead and vector borne diseases are an issue. The lead one is very easily solved so is mute from the start but you can't tell me that systems can't be put in place to mitigate the threat. Proper education is a good start..... masive media attention got Brisbane water users down to the targeted water usage when we were in tough times. How hard would it be to encourage people to clean gutters of leaves and check filter screens etc. Geez the threat of Fire in western Sydney had everyone out cleaning gutters and clearing brush and cutting trees don't you think the threat of Disease would surely have a huge affect.

Guys i'm not saying this issue is an easy fix it's not its a huge problem requiring huge effort to solve it but as Pinhead says we have some very learned people out there that could pull this off. If we only had the Gov't with a but of will!

Cheers

Chris

[Lovey80]

I forgot to ask Pinhead.... Why would the pumps need to constantly be run instead of when say the wet season comes up north and NQLD dams are overflowing? This is my idea not just continually sucking NQLD water possibly putting them on water restrictions.

I absolutely hate the fact that Sunshine coast who have always had 90+% water levels now come under SEQ Water and after Brisbane starts pumping water from Sunny Coast dams to Brisbane dams Sunny coast residents will have to go on water restrictions just so I who am in Brisbane can use their water. I say sure take some of their water but not so much that they have to be on water restrictions.

Cheers

Chris

[insideout]

totally agree lovey, and i will give you a thanks for it, Brisbane should put there dam at Beaudesert, close to there population, less cost for pumping ect. A dam up here will screw this ecosystem up, put it down closer to the source of the need. Cheaper , and everybodys happy.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and you were forced out of your home , to supply me with water...would you?? I doubt it.

So another option is to drink your own recycled waste. Apparenty its cheaper than desal....but the fact that by the time you drink it, it has already been through 6 other people...nasty....but clean . I would rather the tank option...

Water by nature takes the path of least resistance, and the powers that be should do the same, by building it in beaudesert ( from what i read , they want it to happen, and(from my understanding) no body is getting forced to move), not somewhere where they dont and is not only going to badly affect the people of the region, but a whole ecosystem.

Or get proactive and put in a tank, be responsible for the cleaning and usage of it, the county folk have been doing it for years.

Thems the joys of living in a big city.....

[Lovey80]

Thanks insideout, but no so sure about being proactive the solution with tanks. It needs to be enforced on people of Brisbane (who need the water) not the people of Gympie region who have enough. Also being proactive will cost the individual upfront, instead of the state coffers who's problem it is to solve the water problem.

On the pipe program, repaying that huge debt will be made easier as it is a Federal issue and a federal benefit (down stream) and can be levied against all the extra food production. Not to mention the extra taxes they will naturally receive with skyrocketing food prices world wide.

Would also be good to see a Fed that actually really supports the Aussie farmer instead of token efforts every time there is a drought.

Cheers

Chris

[PinHead]

I forgot to ask Pinhead.... Why would the pumps need to constantly be run instead of when say the wet season comes up north and NQLD dams are overflowing? This is my idea not just continually sucking NQLD water possibly putting them on water restrictions.

I absolutely hate the fact that Sunshine coast who have always had 90+% water levels now come under SEQ Water and after Brisbane starts pumping water from Sunny Coast dams to Brisbane dams Sunny coast residents will have to go on water restrictions just so I who am in Brisbane can use their water. I say sure take some of their water but not so much that they have to be on water restrictions.

Cheers

Chris

Chris..how would you propose to get it down here if not using pumps???

[PinHead]

where does Gympie get its water supply from..and also Maryborough ??

[Mike Delisser]

where does Gympie get its water supply from..and also Maryborough ??

Well Maryborough would be Lenthalls, but Gympie??? maybe Borumba.