Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

[park]

Interesting thread, my thoughts from a week in the field.

I used a very slow rolling retrieve 95% of the time, and got a lot of very light touches. I believe the barra were able to follow the the hollowbellys easily have a little slurp on the tail to see if they wanted to eat them.

I was able to convert these very light touches to bites on three occasions, by giving the rod a quick double hop before recommencing the slow roll. The barra then ate them with conviction. Although this occurred three times there were an additional 15 -20 light touches I didn't convert.

Now this is gold for someone relatively new to barra fishing. Much has been said on rod positioning and the actual strike but I'll be the first to admit that I was not all that convinced that the taps and light touches I receive have been barra. I put them down to being mainly bonies or catfish hitting the plastic. Possibly a barra, but I did not have enough confidence in them being barra. It's great to see some information on that subject.

Matt's hard evidence in managing to convert some taps into hookups in turn gives me more confidence in my fishing locations and soft plastic choices as my plastics have been getting enough tap, tap attention throughout the sessions. This also means I can possibly question myself less on fishing spot selection if I am getting taps and next time focus more on strike/rod angle techniques to convert. Stepping stones I guess you'd call it and very valuable information.

Shaun

[SeekingBarradise]

Perfect!!!

Finally now it is visible to see that we are all on much the same wave length.
Before this thread, it was pretty darn evident that a few weren't.

Well done to those that posted 'we are here to learn'. Thats what I and a few others needed to see.

This is a good thread with some good info. Lets get into it!!!!!!

Cheers
Thei

Theo i thought it was a fair enough question to ask as a few of us have been questioned why we started threads latley, so this question was fair enough no doubt about it. If anything a lot of us have been asked about 10 questions, and firing one back still leaves that at 10-1 so more room there till things get balanced.

No doubt at all some will want the barra info on here to get on the KFC tv or do well in comps. A few people have mentioned that one.

Others for social fishing and a few of us for learning which was awesome to see.

Interesting to note that out of the top 100 comp guys there are 3 on here that help people. Trev, Chris & Scott. Thanks fellas. If i missed anyone sorry.
So i will credit Chris as well as ask him questions. Chris atleast gets on here and has helped people thanks for that

Other compe guys are members, but read the info without posting for one reason or another.

I like Dicks thinking e.g. how much is too much free info,where is the line, what is good barter and so on. I like this line of thought as it stops us from thinking we deserve someones life work for free when down the line success from 100 000 free tips will result in improved performance, but then there is another line, will this info be acknowledged or not?

It is a good question when you don't get angry but sit back and think about it hey? You havent' paid for this info in a mag remember, it's free.

As impoundment barra is a very young topic when compared to other fishing scenes it's easy for us all (me included) to be travelling down a goat track when there were accelerated highways to learning. If you don't believe me have a read of this stuff from my diary.

e.g. the hot water theories remember them? Can only catch barra in them in winter.

The cold water theories remember who made us think about them?

Can't catch fish in water under 27deg theories remember them? Anyone remember the article only about 3 years ago that this one was in?

How many were fishing for barra every month in winter 5years ago?
That changed quick didn't it?

If this thinking is on a bit faster highway to learning compared to the other roads of learning in the industry what is the main diffence, and were a few of us on wild goose chases or spa bubble hot water theories not so long ago.

My point is that the barra dynamic has changed incredibly quickly with regards to info. Probably because of the internet and the motherload of amazing info provided on here & sweetwater. I just think at times it's good to acknowledge this as many are heavily critical of mags. So why not remember a few people that have taught us critical paths to explore in our fun barra trips. I say this because i'm convinced if they weren't around we would be 1000 barra evolutions back down that slow goat track. And be spending a life talking about hard bodies, warm water and baitcasters only.

For instance another example, how many reports section threads do you see now noting things like water, wind, current. In the last month more than ever before. Would we have changed like this and thought these topics were the right ones to be observing if we didn't have the net info and only had the mag info, what do you think?

I say this as it's easy to forget we are being helped after reading 1000 threads, and we can all at times sit back and just expect the good oil to turn up.

I don't think any of us on here would have thought anywhere near as in depth on barra if it wasn't for being helped by people smarter than us. I reckon we all agree there.

In case you are in doubt here are some more examples

Keeping this related to Chri's thread where he is looking at his whole game plan.

Who has thought about body position when fishing before that usefull thread a while back? I think it was in the spin one and another from feet position the year before which a few laughed at It's gone full circle now so i'm laughing

How many thought of rattle chambers in soft plastics? If so when did you think of them? Triggered from someone on the net.

How many knew other brands of soft plastics did really well on barra when compared to hard bodies e.g. when did the balance from hard body to plastics hit 50/50 in our tackle boxes, they can tell a lot of evolutionary stories can't they.

I think the word agenda is off track. I think it has more to do with acknowledgement atleast somewhere down the future trac. Call it free info, call it coaching which it basically is in words, call it just asking questions, sharing, at the end of the day it is help and my worry is that some might get 10 years and thousands of threads then jump on a tv or win something and say " It was all my idea and hard work i did it all myself with no help type or reply", that's a vision i see that hopefully doesn't happen, and this is why i think questions are floating around about why?

I wrote this longer summary as i see people thinking the wrong way about questions being asked. There were respectfull reasons questions were asked, no stress, nobody wants to feel pumped for info for what they may think are the wrong reasons. I have no doubt that serious comp minded people do pump the net for info for them to use and brand as their idea. This just needed to be said, nobody take offence. I hope it explains things a little better as the social fisho looked confused on this thread.

Do we all agree that the net has allowed incredible learning we would have never have gotten in several lifetimes without it linking up smart and learning minds?

And does anyone plan on acknowledging people they have learnt massive amounts of info from or just 1 tip in the future? You know what i mean, the aussie way, like a good neighbour that always looks after your place when you are away for years on end, waters the plants, feeds the dog, takes the bin out and collects the mail, then on day down the track you give him a thankyou carton or thank him at a bbq letting people know you appreciated his help & that he's a good bloke.

Anyone going down another path where they think they won't ever acknowledge anyone on here for learning? I'd be interested knowing your thoughts and why?
Looks like you have a cracker of a thread going here Chris, well done.

Cheers Lyndon.

[Steve B]

Theo i thought it was a fair enough question to ask as a few of us have been questioned why we started threads latley, so this question was fair enough no doubt about it. If anything a lot of us have been asked about 10 questions, and firing one back still leaves that at 10-1 so more room there till things get balanced.

No doubt at all some will want the barra info on here to get on the KFC tv or do well in comps. A few people have mentioned that one.

Others for social fishing and a few of us for learning which was awesome to see.

Interesting to note that out of the top 100 comp guys there are 3 on here that help people. Trev, Chris & Scott. Thanks fellas. If i missed anyone sorry.
So i will credit Chris as well as ask him questions. Chris atleast gets on here and has helped people thanks for that

Other compe guys are members, but read the info without posting for one reason or another.

I like Dicks thinking e.g. how much is too much free info,where is the line, what is good barter and so on. I like this line of thought as it stops us from thinking we deserve someones life work for free when down the line success from 100 000 free tips will result in improved performance, but then there is another line, will this info be acknowledged or not?

It is a good question when you don't get angry but sit back and think about it hey? You havent' paid for this info in a mag remember, it's free.

As impoundment barra is a very young topic when compared to other fishing scenes it's easy for us all (me included) to be travelling down a goat track when there were accelerated highways to learning. If you don't believe me have a read of this stuff from my diary.

e.g. the hot water theories remember them? Can only catch barra in them in winter.

The cold water theories remember who made us think about them?

Can't catch fish in water under 27deg theories remember them? Anyone remember the article only about 3 years ago that this one was in?

How many were fishing for barra every month in winter 5years ago?
That changed quick didn't it?

If this thinking is on a bit faster highway to learning compared to the other roads of learning in the industry what is the main diffence, and were a few of us on wild goose chases or spa bubble hot water theories not so long ago.

My point is that the barra dynamic has changed incredibly quickly with regards to info. Probably because of the internet and the motherload of amazing info provided on here & sweetwater. I just think at times it's good to acknowledge this as many are heavily critical of mags. So why not remember a few people that have taught us critical paths to explore in our fun barra trips. I say this because i'm convinced if they weren't around we would be 1000 barra evolutions back down that slow goat track. And be spending a life talking about hard bodies, warm water and baitcasters only.

For instance another example, how many reports section threads do you see now noting things like water, wind, current. In the last month more than ever before. Would we have changed like this and thought these topics were the right ones to be observing if we didn't have the net info and only had the mag info, what do you think?

I say this as it's easy to forget we are being helped after reading 1000 threads, and we can all at times sit back and just expect the good oil to turn up.

I don't think any of us on here would have thought anywhere near as in depth on barra if it wasn't for being helped by people smarter than us. I reckon we all agree there.

In case you are in doubt here are some more examples

Keeping this related to Chri's thread where he is looking at his whole game plan.

Who has thought about body position when fishing before that usefull thread a while back? I think it was in the spin one and another from feet position the year before which a few laughed at It's gone full circle now so i'm laughing

How many thought of rattle chambers in soft plastics? If so when did you think of them? Triggered from someone on the net.

How many knew other brands of soft plastics did really well on barra when compared to hard bodies e.g. when did the balance from hard body to plastics hit 50/50 in our tackle boxes, they can tell a lot of evolutionary stories can't they.

I think the word agenda is off track. I think it has more to do with acknowledgement atleast somewhere down the future trac. Call it free info, call it coaching which it basically is in words, call it just asking questions, sharing, at the end of the day it is help and my worry is that some might get 10 years and thousands of threads then jump on a tv or win something and say " It was all my idea and hard work i did it all myself with no help type or reply", that's a vision i see that hopefully doesn't happen, and this is why i think questions are floating around about why?

I wrote this longer summary as i see people thinking the wrong way about questions being asked. There were respectfull reasons questions were asked, no stress, nobody wants to feel pumped for info for what they may think are the wrong reasons. I have no doubt that serious comp minded people do pump the net for info for them to use and brand as their idea. This just needed to be said, nobody take offence. I hope it explains things a little better as the social fisho looked confused on this thread.

Do we all agree that the net has allowed incredible learning we would have never have gotten in several lifetimes without it linking up smart and learning minds?

And does anyone plan on acknowledging people they have learnt massive amounts of info from or just 1 tip in the future? You know what i mean, the aussie way, like a good neighbour that always looks after your place when you are away for years on end, waters the plants, feeds the dog, takes the bin out and collects the mail, then on day down the track you give him a thankyou carton or thank him at a bbq letting people know you appreciated his help & that he's a good bloke.

Anyone going down another path where they think they won't ever acknowledge anyone on here for learning? I'd be interested knowing your thoughts and why?
Looks like you have a cracker of a thread going here Chris, well done.

Cheers Lyndon.

Damn straight about your quote" the net has allowed learning we would never have gotten in several lifetimes without it linking up smart and learning minds"

Too right Lyndon!! It will be read (if not already) by many the lurk through these posts..especially leading up to ABT and KFC (as you put it)

I am sure if anyone 'claimed' a style or technique in a magazine....and it was something posted here for the first time.....well proof is in the words here.!!! They would fall on the sword.!!!

CHeers Steve

[TinarooTriumph]

I agree... well done Chris on a good thread.

Late today I did a bit of a look back at what has transpired in terms of threads here in the Freshwater Chat section and found one started by yourself in relation to 'Donuts on Impoundments'. I'd link it to this post if I could but can't remember what page it was on. I should have been doing my QPWS reports, but instead read the whole dam thing. Quite obvious that your mad about barra and going about it the right way, though before this thread wasn't entirely sure where you stood. Found the answer I was looking for.

As Lyndon pointed out, this site, as well as Fitzy's Sweetwater, and may I also acknowledge Harro's old Forum which was the absolute ducks nuts of sites (Harro, Jack Erskine, JM, Taylor boys, Linday Dobe, Ian Kucurs input) provide us all with the best barra reading possible. For those that weren't around when Harro's forum was up and going, then you missed the most valuable internet site possible in the whole cyber world. I chose not to post here on ausfish for close to the last 11 months as I found threads to almost be repetitive and a little short of info. We seemed to be talking of donuts and friggin lures more so then what we should have been talking about, which we are now e.g. wind, current, on water conditions. Perhaps we can say we are a little behind? I think so.

Darylive - I'm personally not a big fan of adding stingers. No doubt they do have their place, though I'd like to think we can catch more fish with better rod angles and setups then to simply add a stinger. Have seen some interesting stinger set ups, one of which came from an angler in the ABT last year and it looked rather odd - hole in bottom of plastic, x-tra small snap connected to shank of jighead with a small Owner on the other end. It looked very fragile and not effective enough, though can't talk too much as I didn't even trial it. It could have worked a treat... who knows. This angler didn't do particuarly well in the series I may add and noted in another forum the dreaded 'dropsies' he had.

I would be interested to know how many here have dropped back in line ratings to try to improve hooks ups on barramundi. For nearly 8 months now I have been running 20lb braid on two of my outfits, one still with 30lb. Leaders I have also dropped down in, now opting for grades around 40lb after a long run of fish which failed to nic the leaders - all plastic caught. Braid as we know can be incredibly hard to break when good knots are tied, hence why 30lb is usually pretty safe. Think about it... some of us land 25/30kg fish with lines that are .25mm thick - others outside the fishing world see this as amazing. I know I do.

Cheers

Theo

[SeekingBarradise]

OK ...... right now - this is the most frustrating thing for me in barra fishing ( & probably for more than a few others)........ most noticeable when fishing a soft plastic .

We find the fish & we get the interest - - So how do we all go about converting those nips , taps , swipes to a solid hook up ?

What do you usually do ?

Slow your retrieve
Quicken your retrieve
Change retrieve style
Change to a smaller lure ( or larger)
Add a stinger
Drop down in leader size or length
Other
Slash your wrists ( just kidding)

Do nothing

Do you check your leader for abrasion ........ were you slow to strike ? ....... unlike many forms of fishing the quick reflexes in a strike is often critical .
What other things can we look for ....... that might give us a clue to the reason ?

Its an interesting but mostly unspoken subject ........ how can we improve our conversion rate (get that hook up)

Look forward to your responses

Chris

Trying To Help

Let's start from the start hey. On a trip with Trev weren't you striking with a sideways motion and losing fish? Didnt' Trev say something like "What the hell are you doing?" He is experienced enough to spot this. If he spotted something wrong, and you have doubts about it, well isnt' that telling you it's time to maybe look at a slight change?

If so others smarter than me might be able to hlep on here.

We need to know what wasn't working as well (striking) first to work out how to help each other out. And why? It sounds like a fairly simple thing to fix, just change your position. Done simple mechanics.

If you weren't having the success you like maybe have a look at the position and what your arm actions were imparting on the rod and more importantly the soft plastic e.g. how it moved when you did this. I think this is covered in here on a smart reply somewhere.

And if you are not satisfied with the outcome of your positions to impart a high % of hookups then will you change this technique from the very first cast on your next trip? If not we are all wasting our time etc.

Is hooking a fish consider it to be as important as a lure modification or the new hard body lure that is coming out?

Lures come and go, but your body and technique is something we are stuck with, if it's the weak link arent' we just patching up old flat tyres, when we could just change them to coopers and get a million miles out of them. With one simple change. The question you are asking is something a guide would fix in the first 5 minutes on charter if their positions and techniques were not going to maximise hookup ratios, as the guides whole business hinges on a successful outcome.
So thier radar is on, in a coaching situation, however for most of the fishing industry success is a self judged path, which in human nature has led to trouble at times.

Is this info sounding helpfull Chris, does it make sense or not? It makes perfect sense to me, but you and i are often on different wave lengths, i think we learn and interpret words & sentences differently & miss and take different info out of each post.

Mate i'm no guru, just trying to help even if i try and don't get one tip across to you atleast i've tried to help you out as it would be great to hear one tip that eventually helps your fishing for the rest of your life, pretty cool thing to do just from the typing of a few words hey.

So have a look at the striking position that your rod and body is in for the entire retrieve. All answers start from your base setup, if it's off you could have the reflexes of Usain Bolt in the 100m but they will still result in lost fish. Why make your job harder, all you might have to do is stand there in a diff position, simple stuff really when you think about it, not too complex. Anyone can do it.

Cheers Lyndon.

[SeekingBarradise]

Eliminating Limitations: To help our fishing

Chris it's easy to see that you view barra fishing as a sport.
With this approach you have no choice but to have a sporting approach yourself, as your opposition will be doing all they can to beat you in comps.

I've held back for years with regards to writing this on Ausfish as i didn't think it was ready to up the ante and i thought all that would happen is that i'd get laughed at by people that didn't understand what i was saying and by people that had little knowledge of my trade, but have a shot at me anyway.

But i reckon the time is right for another way of looking at improving our fishing.
If you don't like this style of writing you might be in denial, because most of it contains the simple facts of life from medical and sports research to the tune of billions and billions of dollars being spend on both areas yearly. e.g. decent data, not opinion or conjecture.

I'd like to Acknowledge that this post is along the lines of a great line from Steve B a while back from his ambo training, life and death stuff. Important.

Are you making decisions for future actions when you are HART.
H: Hungry
A: Angry
R: Rushed or
T: Tired

My post will run along similar lines. Trying to extract maximum physical and mental performance when other factors are holding us back.

Dick is dead right about a few factors that will slow down reflexes.

Chris if you are really serious about improving then you can up the ante even more, it just depends on that great sporting line i like to ask people.

"How much do you really want it?"

Limitations

1. Drinking is a limitation = reflexes slower, less observant.

On the trip with hookup problems were you drinking as i know you like a drink?

I'd ditch the beers for good while fishing if you are serious about really improving. Most organised sports would ask a person to leave if they were drinking ha and it sounds like you take your barra fishing very seriously, which leaves you only one choice, you either fish social and not worry about any of the thinking posts on here, or you take it seriously and commit 100% to your goal.

Planning
A 70% committment put up against your opposition committing 100% and living next to barra dams is a plan to make things tougher for yourself, all self inflicted.

2. Lack of sleep can result in people driving as if they were drunk (& fishing).

It's not rocket science, but it needs to be mentioned,reflexes are again slowed by the late nights in a row while barra fishing and camping. So much so that if i threw a tennis ball at someones head from 10m away sober they would dodge it, but after a lack of sleep even in fear of being hurt or injured (emergency response) they would be slower and slower at telling their body to move & i'd find it easier to hit them let alone beat them in a game of relfex Snap (cards).
The same slow response is magnified on barra stirkes, especially on a tenth of a second a second strike.


3. Poor Diet or lack of eating frequently?

Not eating for periods like 6 hours is basically one of the dumbest things you could do to yourself if having faster reflexes and being more alert to observe subtle changes is part of your long term and short term goals. Hell just feeling better to enjoy a sunset happens from eating a little better, doesnt' everyone want to feel a bit better to enjoy the outdoors? or do we want to feel as tired and cranky as possible so we enjoy the serenity of the outdoors?

In summary i see that most of your trips contain drinking, lack of sleep and i've seen the bacon, snags and sausage bbq's which sit in the stomach like a carpet python after eating a small rock wallaby. Do you yourself think this is the best plan for maximising hookups? If not then it's a huge limitation.

My point is that these 3 factors have a huge bearing on reflexes and concentration, planning and overall positive outlooks/confidence.
Words can't describe the differences if you had better sleep, no drinking while fishing for comp practise and constant food for energy.

No stress mate, i played footy in the country where blokes used to get picked up from the pub before training and say 'I haven't been drinking or smoking" yet you could smell the beer and durries all over them, we used to laugh our heads off. And who were the guys at training that used to drop the most footies resulting in the compulsory 20 pushups. On a funny side note a few had rollies at half time, how they could even gasp for air out on the footy field amazes me.

You could call this a D-Grade approach to footy, yet we had a A-Grade coach.

Then on the flip side at the Lions you got checked and weighed in every week and had targets to stay on or you got fined $$$ each week. That was an A-Grade approach. In the premiership years i remember the nutritionist telling one person "Don't even bother turning up to train if you haven't eaten".

Food for thought as we all need to know what type of approach we are using, to be happy with out lot in fishing, whether it's a carton a day and socialising in camp with a bit of fishing, trying to catch a barra a trip, a day or a session like you have to do in comp and guiding. But we can't complain about our weakness if we are applying a D-Grade approach to a game that requires a A-Grade approach. I consider Impoundment Barra a A-Grade opposition and consider guiding or catching fish every 6 hours as a A-Grade challenge.

In Past Trips & On Future Trips

Think about the times you missed fish from being too slow, we have all done it.
Observe the times when you do this in the future. Evaluate if you were Tired, Low on energy from lack of food and frequency of eating and or drinking.


Chris it all depends on

"How much do you really want to improve?"

and

"What grade of approach you choose to use?"

To laugh at the above organised approach would be to admit that you don't want
to committ 100%, but can you afford to do that if your opposition is focused on winning?

I hope this post is clear and helpfull enough for everyone to understand, no matter what their fishing goals are. I hope you can take one tip out of a different organised approach. If not i'm sorry to bore the crap out of you.

Cheers Lyndon.

[vet]

Hello Lyndon, great post above. How does all this improvement in reaction time methods explain why my rod holders rarely miss a strike and yet the rod that I am holding regularly does, afterall my rod holders don't strike at all but they have a better hook up rate than a hand held rod. I'm really unsure as to whether striking has any effect on hookup rate at all. If you hold your rod firmly so that when a strike comes the rod bends and recoils itself I think this is a bigger factor in hooking a fish. I don't think our reflexes will ever be fast enough to make any difference at all. How many times have we had a double tap bite from small barra and still not reacted fast enough to hook them, after all the barra has inhaled lure, spat it out and inhaled it again before you can even blink. So I believe a barra hooks itself.

Having said that though, your advice as usual is very good. Everything you have said will improve your reaction times, alertness etc so that you can better respond to your environment. Being alert and faster can't hurt your chances in any way and it may give you an edge, so anyone serious about barra fishing can only benefit from doing what you have suggested.

good advice, scott.

ps. This post highlights all the things we did wrong on last saturday's fishing trip.
The only thing we did right was eating breakfast. Got on the water at monduran at 8am, fished all day till 9pm, sustained by 2 sandwiches and 4 rums, had 15 bites for 9 hookups and 6 landed, then drove back to awoonga, arrive 11pm, start fishing, bite not happening , running low on coke so were having half strength coke and rum( drank a bottle of rum with only 3 cans of coke between 2 of us), were relatively hammered, hungry and tired by 4am, then I got a bite, nearly fell out of boat, reflexes so slow, fish hooked itself and somehow landed a 110cm barra. Sometimes you were just destined to land that fish.

cheers scott.

[darylive]

I'm screwed, where,s me beer?

[Braidmaster]

There has been a lot of talk about the angler, stance, rod position, angles, strike time and stingers. Lyndon has brought forward some good points that should be taken in to consideration. I certainly have, long drives and not eating enough are major points i need to look at. Thanks Lyndon.
Why don’t we think about the barra we are targeting, this species is critical in the overall answer.
Why would a barra bump a lure, nip or take a swipe?
If we as humans are unsure of a food source we will prod it, pick it and investigate it before we mung in. Wouldn’t a barra do the same? After all this fish is seeing the same fake food sources every day. If a real bony or gar swims by in the barras awareness zone is the barra going to prod it and bump it to risk it swimming away, I don’t think so. If it is real a barra will scoff it with full conviction.
If our presentations are natural enough, should we be feeling these bumps or should our presentations just be scoffed. Once we worked out how to make a barra eat fully convinced of our presentations, then the angler can contribute to maximise his/her conversion rate. Why do people use stingers for the so called short strike? If a barra wants to eat something it will not miss it. Maybe other factors need to be looked at in depth and measured before resorting to a quick and simple answer.
So what I’m thinking is our retrieves need to enhance our lures presentation, making a fake food source look as natural as possible, to convince the fish that this source is real, and therefore we will not feel a bump. We will feel the fully committed strike. With enhancing retrieves a lot of variables will come in to play, rod, reel, line, lure, angler, grip, weight, angle etc.
So if we are feeling a lot of bumps from barra that are not striking, is the barra telling us something and we not picking up on it. We are measured right then and there, on the spot.

[mr_yamba]

An observation i have made is that a lot of barra on hardbodies are hooked outside the mouth. It seems that bumps can still result in hookups with 3 trebles hanging off a lure. Soft plastics would not be successful in this manner in most instances. I beleive that a number of taps whilst using soft plastic lures are intended to stun or disorientate the bait to see if they can attack it. Therefore i don't think that every tap is a bite as such. hard to say really.

[Steve B]

An observation i have made is that a lot of barra on hardbodies are hooked outside the mouth. It seems that bumps can still result in hookups with 3 trebles hanging off a lure. Soft plastics would not be successful in this manner in most instances. I beleive that a number of taps whilst using soft plastic lures are intended to stun or disorientate the bait to see if they can attack it. Therefore i don't think that every tap is a bite as such. hard to say really.

Thats exactly right Mr Yamba...I beleive (and was told once by someone I respected in NT barra fishing) often they will face slap a baitfish to stun it, before taking a second gulp to eat it...hence the side of face hookups.

As for stingers. To me it less about the actual initial hookup, but more about staying connected once hooked. Although, I have seen a fair % of fish hooked soley by the stinger.....BUT does it detract from the action...thus less strikes...thus less fish in the long run???? DUNNO!!!

Its my 'reaction time' insurance if I am drinking beer!!!

Cheers Steve

[park]

Face slapping is interesting.

My first thought was to question as to why a barra would face slap a baitfish, what would be the reasons for doing so? Do other fish do this and could a barra actually stun a fish in that manner considering how bulky their head and shoulders are and move that bulk to the side quickly enough to stun?

I am assuming it would take the barra fair amount of effort for sideways movement with less forward momentum. Maybe not so much of a stun but to disorientate it's prey? If a barra could push enough water with sideways movement in a direction towards the fish then you would think that the water movement created could possibly move the baitfish in the opposite direction, more in front or on top of that bucket mouth. Maybe if the baitfish was in the wrong position (off to the side) to inhale then maybe a "face slap" could correct that.

But also if a barra is that close to it's prey and is commited to eating it wouldn't it just inhale instead? The amount of water that is drawn through their mouths must be massive, surely enoough to suck in a baitfish at the side of their face. Kind of like a jet engine on a place sucking in air from the front and sides.

Another thought is, wouldn't a commited barra be a master at putting itself into the best possible position to inhale it's prey without the need to face slap. Maybe not always with a dodging baitfish, but certainly with a comparatively straight running predictable lure.

Loads of questions in there I know, just thinking out loud.

[mr_yamba]

There are heaps of videos on youtube of barra feeding in aquariums, however this is a very restricted environment and may not actually give a true indication of how barra feed in the wild. It would be a lot different in the wild when barra have to chase down bait.

[mr_yamba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQY0eJY4fs

this shows an example of the barra inhaling the prey from beside and behind the head. sucking in from this position with a hardbody would almost certainly result in the trebles catching the face on the way past. however this doesn't really explain missed taps on soft plastics. lets get thinking a bit more.

[Little grey men]

Face slapping is interesting.

My first thought was to question as to why a barra would face slap a baitfish, what would be the reasons for doing so? Do other fish do this and could a barra actually stun a fish in that manner considering how bulky their head and shoulders are and move that bulk to the side quickly enough to stun?

I am assuming it would take the barra fair amount of effort for sideways movement with less forward momentum. Maybe not so much of a stun but to disorientate it's prey? If a barra could push enough water with sideways movement in a direction towards the fish then you would think that the water movement created could possibly move the baitfish in the opposite direction, more in front or on top of that bucket mouth. Maybe if the baitfish was in the wrong position (off to the side) to inhale then maybe a "face slap" could correct that.

But also if a barra is that close to it's prey and is commited to eating it wouldn't it just inhale instead? The amount of water that is drawn through their mouths must be massive, surely enoough to suck in a baitfish at the side of their face. Kind of like a jet engine on a place sucking in air from the front and sides.

Another thought is, wouldn't a commited barra be a master at putting itself into the best possible position to inhale it's prey without the need to face slap. Maybe not always with a dodging baitfish, but certainly with a comparatively straight running predictable lure.

Loads of questions in there I know, just thinking out loud.

Could the face slap be an aggrevise move ? Could they even be playing with their food like a lot of other predatory animals do. I know that bass swipe a lot of lures....spinnerbaits for example. I hook quite a few bass in the fins. In the last week I hooked one bass right through the base of the ventral fin and another yesterday arvo right under the belly !!!! What the heck were the lures doing there ? A LOT get hooked all around the head. I even hook the occasional one in the gob
Good thread Chris.