Epirb advise Please.

[cormorant]

Satnav

Unfortunately you seem to have great knowledge of the techncal aspects of the system but seem unable to answer a simple question in plain English. I appreciate you answers and when I have time I go read up a bit more so i understand more about the system and proceses but I don't always have time and have no need to become expert proficient.

I'll ask again ( do I have to number them to stop selective answering ? if you don't know just say so)

Does a GPS EPIRB give a accurate position?
Is it more accurate , more regular or faster initially than a Non GPS? If it isn't we are wasting our money upgrading to them is my thought?
How many has AMSA registered? - asked as on a previous thread we discussed how many were required and what the manufactures and amsa had guessed. They must have a pretty good idea and I understand they have told teh industry the numbers and the mix of GPS units registered. It is far under the number sold so there is a education problem still??

My point about 50m is simply that with a more accurate position searches can be more focused and intense on a smaller area and hopefully lead to a quicker rescue

[Chimo]

Cormorant and others

When we were discussing the EPIRB thing yesterday I was motivated to go looking to resolve for myself the question about "GPS on an EPIRB, worth it or not? This is what I found from what I think is a reliable source. AMSA

Non GPS, location down to 5 km. With GPS, down to 120m

There is extra time required to get an accurate fix without a GPS

AMSA says "Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90 minutes on average to receive the signal but it may take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions."

Location

GPS- Has an accuracy locator of 120 Metres Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90 minutes on average to receive the signal but it may take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions.
More information is needed to determine the real location. This usually means at least two satellite passes &/or independent intelligence is required to determine a location and this takes more time. Non GPS has an accuracy locator of 5km



http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/gps.html

My conclusion:

If you can afford it and you dont think you can wait a bit longer (maybe up to 5 hrs because Vic and NSW has cold water cf to Qld etc etc) then a GPS EPIRB is probably worth while.

Cheers
Chimo

[SatNav]

1. The numbers game is quite strange really, no sure of the relevance or what you are trying to even suggest?

2. I think i will best leave this GPS or Non GPS decision to the idividual user as some are trying to do ignore the actual procedures and trying to make a big deal out of it. If you are happy GPS or non GPS then fine.

3. What is probably more important from this thread is the over emphasis being placed on this "free" battery syndrome as there are definately much more important things to consider in the purchase decision and yes this includes the GPS v non GPS models in the right context

4. Relevant to some previous comments Pains Wessex does not actually make any EPIRBs they market (at all) as opposed to others companies who do sell what they manufacturer.

[cormorant]

Cormorant and others

When we were discussing the EPIRB thing yesterday I was motivated to go looking to resolve for myself the question about "GPS on an EPIRB, worth it or not? This is what I found from what I think is a reliable source. AMSA

Non GPS, location down to 5 km. With GPS, down to 120m

There is extra time required to get an accurate fix without a GPS

AMSA says "Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90 minutes on average to receive the signal but it may take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions."

Location

GPS- Has an accuracy locator of 120 Metres Orbiting satellites will calculate the position if there is no GPS capability. These orbiting satellites take 90 minutes on average to receive the signal but it may take up to 5 hours depending on the conditions.
More information is needed to determine the real location. This usually means at least two satellite passes &/or independent intelligence is required to determine a location and this takes more time. Non GPS has an accuracy locator of 5km



http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/gps.html

My conclusion:

If you can afford it and you dont think you can wait a bit longer (maybe up to 5 hrs because Vic and NSW has cold water cf to Qld etc etc) then a GPS EPIRB is probably worth while.

Cheers
Chimo

Hi Chimo

Well it seem that Satnav implies that the actual behind the scenes process the worldwide protocols doesn''t actually represent the same as the statements above.

Please satnav if you have the knowledge in simple english just tell us if a GPS enabled EPIRB has any benefit over a non GPS and how in the real world ( with your knowledged of sats and the system procedures actually in place) these apply to me in the drink getting found and rescued.

Maybe a worked example?

[SatNav]

"Well it seem that Satnav implies that the actual behind the scenes process the worldwide protocols doesn''t actually represent the same as the statements above."

1. That's right not quite the same. That is a very simplistic version considering the overall documentation and actual procedures but for purposes here no point confusing people as simple english appears to receive the same question.

"GPS enabled EPIRB has any benefit over a non GPS and how in the real world these apply to me in the drink getting found and rescued."

2. This type of how long is a piece of strig type query is always extremely vague. So are you 3nm off the beach on a nice clam sunny day having a bit of a paddle or 300nm off the coast in the middle of the night, gusting 60 knots?

3. What can you really say to people with such vague queries? Nothing is really guaranteed,

[cormorant]

Let me be more specific


If I set off a GPS EPIRB ( Strobe broken ) and a Non GPS EPIRB (strobe broken) off on their own ( no boat , no people) 40 miles off the coast and 100 miles apart which one will be recovered first?. ( assume all other factors of rescue are the same)

Like looking for a needle in a haystack or a epirb (with a broken light) in a ocean.

EDIT - added_ We know nothing is guaranteed and there is bound to be flaws in every level of the system to some extent as it will always have some compromises but that's life and we are trying to give ourselves the best chance

[SatNav]

"GPS enabled EPIRB has any benefit over a non GPS and how in the real world these apply to me in the drink getting found and rescued."

1. Further to this query then possibly the following link might give additional insight with regard a positive result outcome be it GPS or non GPS. Otherwise look in the crystal ball


http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/Documen....08_AnnexC.pdf

[cormorant]

Your responses are far to cryptic for me Satnav
Is there a specific place I should be looking in the 150page report you put up a link to?

Is there anywhere in that report where it demonstrates the difference between GPS or non GPS enable EPIRB with reference to the questions above like

More accurate position given?
Quicker position attained?
etc etc

EDIT - Added text and spelling
Survival etc is all about heaps of other factors . I am interested in the notification by EPIRB and the benefit ( if there is any with the protocols and way the system is administered) in actually leading to possible shorter time in the water.

[SatNav]

"Is there a specific place I should be looking in the 150page report you put up a link to?"

1. You start reading at page 7 and by the time to get to page 143 you will hopefully be able to answer your own question re type of GPS and typical survival outcomes. The info is there if you really want to understand your own query.

2. Failing that and continuing on the way you have then you are only wasting time.

[Chine]

"Is there a specific place I should be looking in the 150page report you put up a link to?"

1. You start reading at page 7 and by the time to get to page 143 you will hopefully be able to answer your own question re type of GPS and typical survival outcomes. The info is there if you really want to understand your own query.

2. Failing that and continuing on the way you have then you are only wasting time.

Cormorant,

I have viewed the link and fail to see anything which vagely answers your query.
Response times are not detailed, there is no split between EPIRBS & GPIRBS and coordinates are rounded off in degrees. The only enlightening thing about the link is some of the situations, those rescued got themselves into.

Rgds

Chine

[cormorant]

No Satnav you are wasting everyones time.

I like Chine couldn't find an answer in the file.

Is there a reason you can't explain your cryptic answers in plain English for a dummy like myself ?

[SatNav]

1. That's fine in this case will leave the herd around the water hole.

[Chine]

1. That's fine in this case will leave the herd around the water hole.

Knowledge is power..........ah, the conceit is tangible

[cormorant]

1. That's fine in this case will leave the herd around the water hole.

Why don't you put up a answer if you know it??
If you don't know it - so what ?

[sporty1]

I certainly don't mean to be rude of offensive but SATNAV as a layman with very limited knowledge of eperbs and gps etc. I haven't understood very much of the above information at all especially the "electronics speak"

But I would ask. In your opinion what is the best epirb to buy at the moment and for what reason? I need to buy one in the next couple of weeks and really need some advise as to what would be best at this time. Am I better with the gps epirb or does it not serve the purpose it was intended and that is to reduce the size of the intended search area?