Bought the microlen sheet I used from Clarke Rubber. Top quality stuff.
Went for 'under gunnel' flotation rather than 'under floor'.
Cheers.
Bought the microlen sheet I used from Clarke Rubber. Top quality stuff.
Went for 'under gunnel' flotation rather than 'under floor'.
Cheers.
Yeh but I, don't know what would be worse.... drowning or being seen in something soo uggy:grin: .Originally Posted by stinky-stabi
& from what I hear they need that floatation for when they trip over...
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
so your hearing aint to crash hot i guessYeh but I, don't know what would be worse.... drowning or being seen in something soo uggy:grin: .
& from what I hear they need that floatation for when they trip over
cheers... and wot boat doesnt when it goes over ya
.....wats uggy
is that like warm ,,,doh ...pmsl...lolololol
To teh stabi owners remember the boat in the Torres straight. Thats what can happen with air as a floatation. It has to be foam filled for me to be happy. Yep extra weight but not much.
I know people actually pressure test the air buoyancy cells when new but what about in 10 years time with small pin prick holes and none drains anywhere for a bilge pump to work.
I like my boats to have access to all compartments so you can fix em and check em.
Stinki -Stabi.
18moths ago I bought an on site caravan at Iluka. The Clarke 15 ft CC with 35 merc was in the annex and cost me nothin.
You should have bought a van,,,,, lolololololo pmsl,,,, all the way to the bank
Did anyone see the story on 4corners about the 'Malu Sara' Torres Straight incident? Absolute cock-up from the letting of the tender to build and fit out of what turned out to be poorly constructed craft not fit for intended operations, right through to the woeful rescue response.
It was a sad day for the families and friends of those lost and a shameful performance by the fed government, Immigration dept, and search and rescue coordination.
Cheers
Very sad, had me so angry at the idiots we employ in government to be so negligent. The lack of action was astounding.
There was another thread about it and everyone had the same disgust.
Just one more reason not to like air floatation in the formulae for buoyancy
I am liking my EVA sheets idea, more and more, if the numbers add up.
40-45 mm of kick-board material from gunnel to floor sikaflexed in place.
Just as an estimate the gunnel to floor measurement, I would put at 700mm
lined all the way around should be about 10 metres at 45mm thick, thats 0.315 m3 of eva foam. The pod on the back should hold 0.21 m3. A few slabs of it under the floor and the foam in the thwart & we should be there.
It will probably offer good noise insulation too.
Can anyone see a flaw in my thinking. With the foam attached above the normal waterline it should float upright if swamped????
I realize this wont win a prize at the Concourse D,elegence, but thats not the point of the exercise.
Excellent score with the boat Rando!
You are right, the foam does cut the noise level somewhat, every bit helps!
Adds a little comfort to the gunnels also!
I went the microlen because of its' UV and chemical (saltwater, fuel) resistance, as well as its' relative high density.
Cheers.
Nigel
The way i plan to use it, the foam would be subject to contact from people and gear etc.
So the EVA looks to me to be more durable.
I still havent heard from the manufacturer on availability or price. So this might all be "pie in the sky" yet.
EVA isn't a bad choice... unless you are getting fussy then you should go for the "proper Stuff"......another choice is PE foam.. it is considerably cheaper than EVA but not quite as good looking. and very little choice of colour.
If you are costing foam.... let your fingers do the walking......jacksons foam & vinyl at raceview, I have always found very competitive and helpfull......aparantly there is a crowd over a gebung that are very competitive too.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
If you hapen o fluke the exact balance and amount of foam in a millpond you might if you sit very still. The idea has come from american lakes and is better than nothing but not as good as all the marketing will lead you to believe. It has been used by the big manufacturers to raise the bar to make it harder for smaller manufacturers . You'll be covered in fuel or oil and sit will be floating around you and probably tangle you up. You'll watch the foam gradually peel off as the bond to the ally fails
10 years down the track you'll possibly have the acids from the wrong type of sikaflex corroding the ally. The salt water trapped between the foam and the ally might cause issues. The 20% weight of water the foam may absorb over time won't help.
Not being a arsehole just pointing out some things people should think about as it isn't only cost as the reason manufacturers don't do it.
Cormorant
Not trying to pick nits. here but the idea came from trying to figure out how to stay afloat if swamped. The realization that flotation under the floor will cause it to float upside down leads to using a different method and product.
Are you sure that it will absorb 20%of its weight ??? That certainly is an issue!
As to sikaflex being the wrong fixative, no problem, Ill use something else, and put some spacers behind it to prevent trapping water there.
thanks for bring up those potential problems.
Yeah I know
they test the quality foams and they still absorb a little when brand new. With age they may get worse. Water absorbtion has been an issue with all commercial foams for the last 30 years be they pour in or slab. No ventilation, corrosive, fuel environments with UV and heat all have added to the problems. The up to 20% is a number out of my bum but the old polystyrene was worse than that.
Having been in a swamped boat in a bay ( transom torn in a ally after a log strike) I tell you the floor air and floatation did make the boat unstable but kept it on the surface and conditions were flat so it stayed right way up. There was no way we were staying in it as the motion and being scared of it turning turtle and us being injured was far to great. In so many ways we wished that boat just sunk by the transom and we could have held onto the bow ( air ) as it would have been stable until we got our breath and a nearby boat heard us. Becuase the water inside the boat is not connected to the water outside the boat it acts oddly. The gunnel floatation would barely ave been supporting this boat as it still had a little freeboard . Perhaps a few big holes with an axe in the sides may have helped the stability as the water would not have being trying to get in or out all the time.
In terms of being safe in the ocean with a swell in that situation I might keep a small tether to the boat but would feel safer in the water with a jacket on so as not to get bashed about and the tether would just be to stay with a bigger easier to find object for radar and teh fuel slick and cut the tether if it was going to the bottom.
Have been on a boat that picked up 2 guys of a upturned cat , now that was a stable capsize , they could had a tea party on it but were still struggling to hang on to a smooth hull with only a small rope through the winch eye to hang on to. Wasn't level , ie nose up but stable as. They had slowed to see why the boat wan't trimable and performing and it was that one hull was half full ( no foam) with a crack and it slowly rolled. They in hindsight should have kept running on the plane but you don't know that at the time.
Foam to keep something on the surace I think is ok- the level floatation lark hasn't got me convinced but keeping something afloat is a good idea
Good life jackets , life rings, individual GPS epirbs personal ( F#$# the boat I want them to find me) or boat epirb attached to my jacket and big bilge pumps all add up to me. Foam in airtight compartments is a goer as I wan something like a boat to hang on to but I don't want a bloody cork on the surface or a unstable rolly polly log.
For the money on foam and time you are getting near the value of a valaise 3 man life raft that is designed to safe your life
This is a typical bunch of clap trap and half truths I have heard sprouted by a variety of people who try to justify not even attempting to improve the flotation in boats....... just like the bunch of crap that we heard sprouted allong with the introduction of seat belts...and a whole pile of other safety issues.
1 any flotation is better than a boat that will sink like a stone, 2 any flotation that make some effort in distributing the floatation properly in the hope of the boat floating right way up is better than not.
Any boat that floats sort of upright and can then be bailed out has to be a real good thing.... particularly if you are the sucker in the water at the time.
There have been all sorts of people arguing against all sorts of compulsory safety measures since they were concieved.
As far as fluking the balance......perhaps a some thaught and perhaps a very small amount of maths is better than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Big manufacturers raising the bar to squeese out small manufacturers... sounds like a pile of sour grapes and inability to cope with changing times on behalf of small manufacturers to me......of perhapssomeone who relies on building a cheap boat.
Being covered in fuel and oil.......so what has that got to do with flotation......so how much fuel will come out of a proper marine fuel tank that is properly secured in a swamping, and where is all this oil going to come from........so would you rather be "up to your kneck in fueL and oil" with a boat sort of right way up or bobbing around in the middle of the great blue.
Acids from the wrong type of sicaflex........Sica would like to have a chat with you.
the fear of corrosion, incorrect foams and adhesives is a workmanship and specification problem...... nothing to do with the benifit of anyform of flotation.
prepare the aluminium properly and use an appropriate adhesive and you'll have to carve the stuff of with a blade.....if you need to do this have plenty of blades
as for absorbing 20% water over the life of the foam........so what foam are we specifying........ and are you talking about a boat that permanently has water in its bilge.....this is a great half truth.
Besides if the foam has 20% moisture... it still retains arround 80% flotation.
In all fairness there are problems with certain foams that have been used in the past... in particular the mix and pour areated foams that have been used and most respectable boat builders strongly recomend against.
if the boat is generaly stored high and dry and the foam is not enclosed and alowed to transpire....it will almost completly dry out between uses...... even if it is a mix and pour foam.
This is why microkleen is strongly recomended...it does not exhibit these problems.
OH..... speak to the dedicated black fellas up north who care for the place by picking up stuff that washes ashore........thongs ( eva foam)float so long they
grow barnicles and just keep floating.
All these arguments against flotation are old, poorly considered and in the most part overcome by correct selection of materials and a little bit of thaught.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote