I won't start it all again but I have prbably done more soft sand driving in my beast than you have had hot dinners and its fine. But anyway, I'm heading to Straddie and Burrum Point again in the next few months. I'm trying to take this car to as many places as many times as I can before I replace it with a 'real' 4WD as babies and camping don't fit in a little Forester.Originally Posted by culbara
Hardcore hillclimb in that there vid.,
Got me stuffed why I take the fourby up the beach or thru the desert - next time I'll just take wifey's b4.
Sounds like a meet and greet is in order in somewhere where there is really soft sand. I for one want to get really bogged in sand in a place where my car is not going washed away by the tide, just for the practice. I am yet to get my car stuck. I was taught to 4wd by a guy who used to drive up the one way hills at straddie, where cars were supposed to come down, so I have a few ideas. But it would be nice to get some practice in actually getting stuck!
Make sure you go to my hill yoot, and tape it for us hey. But I still get the feeling you are yet to see a propper 4x4 and the ease at which it can negotiate any terain. Let alone just soft sand. ANY soft sand you have to get a run up and power through. I can drive through in first or second at any speed I like and stop anywhere, and then take off with ease (also towing someone out). And another thing. WHO EVER USES LOW RANGE IN SAND, DOESNT HAVE A CLUE.... High range first or second.
I dont want to talk it up too much, as I have reluctantly purchased another 80 series turbo diesel and want to make sure it has enough power.
Here's a short clip for you. LS1 V8 in a 75 series. 2wd
Think he is going to get stuck??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4dB9mUzSzM
Depends for example in my old patrol td4.2 over chopped up soft sand low range second gear gives a comfortable ride for myself and the passengers at around it's preferred cruising rpm of 2500 and allows me to either speed up or drop well down in rpm and then back up in transit without forcing a gear change and any sign of lugging.
Cars with a lot of power and torque for their weight changes the equation toward your claim....another 4wd where low range is appropriate was the hilux's and my old beach car a 2.6l petrol MQ patrol....horses for courses.
Your V8 spoilt
cheers fnq
I'm with you FNQ, somewhere in my deep dark history there is a daihatsu F50 with mud tyres, and a Kia Ceres 1.5 tonne 4wd tip truck powered by a powerhouse perkins s2s2 (2200cc naturally aspirated). If it weren't for low range and cold mornings I can name a couple of renovations at Teewah and Fraser that never would have been built.We're spoilt for grunt these days.
Yes, thats very good FOR OLD ACCIENT 4Bies. So ill make an acception there.
But the main point here is about tyre size and the ability to float across the sand instead of digging down.
Most soft sand ruts and hills, are all about momentum and grip. Actually, I wouldnt even use the word grip. The "Bigger" wider and longer your footprint is. The easier your ability to glide over the top of the sand. I use a hell of alot less fuel and work load on the engine with the ability to glide over the top. Its a completely different ball game with big tyres. Everything is effortless. Thus I only ever use 2wd on fraser.
Think of it this way. Your footprint in snow will sink down deep until its finds something more dence to hold the weight. The more area your footprint can cover (snow shoes) - The more the load is shared = less load. Making you actually lighter. So your actually making your truck lighter. Which eliminates alot of the lighter vs heavier comments. Solong as you have the torque to spin them in high range, or changed your gearing to suit. Those 2 things cobined is a unstopable force.
1st high - idle to 20kph
2nd high - 10 to 30kph if enough grunt "Heaps of room for throttle adjustment to suit terrain, find best rev range, power on or back off and let torque pull you out" most times you find the grip when backing off, and sometimes you have to power on as hard as you can.
1st low - idle to 7kph
2nd low - 7 - 15kph Find best revs and just keep it there and hope you make it.
just a rough guide
Which brings us back to the soft roader debate. They all fail to 1 of of these symptoms. Lack of clearance, lack of power, not able to fit decent tyres, lack of strength (engine, gearbox, clutch, driveline, axles) after fitting bigger tyres and suspension stroke.
Im not picking on anyones softy. If your happy with it then fine. But they are the laws of 4x4ing.
Is a suzuki jimni considered a soft roader?Yes, thats very good FOR OLD ACCIENT 4Bies
But the main point here is about tyre size and the ability to float across the sand instead of digging down.
Most soft sand ruts and hills, are all about momentum and grip. Actually, I wouldnt even use the word grip. The "Bigger" wider and longer your footprint is. The easier your ability to glide over the top of the sand. I use a hell of alot less fuel and work load on the engine with the ability to glide over the top. Its a completely different ball game with big tyres. Everything is effortless. Thus I only ever use 2wd on fraser.
Think of it this way. Your footprint in snow will sink down deep until its finds something more dence to hold the weight. The more area your footprint can cover (snow shoes) - The more the load is shared = less load. Making you actually lighter. So your actually making your truck lighter. Which eliminates alot of the lighter vs heavier comments. Solong as you have the torque to spin them in high range, or changed your gearing to suit. Those 2 things cobined is a unstopable force.
1st high - idle to 20kph
2nd high - 10 to 30kph if enough grunt "Heaps of room for throttle adjustment to suit terrain, find best rev range, power on or back off and let torque pull you out" most times you find the grip when backing off, and sometimes you have to power on as hard as you can.
1st low - idle to 7kph
2nd low - 7 - 15kph Find best revs and just keep it there and hope you make it.
just a rough guide
Which brings us back to the soft roader debate. They all fail to 1 of of these symptoms. Lack of clearance, lack of power, not able to fit decent tyres, lack of strength (engine, gearbox, clutch, driveline, axles) after fitting bigger tyres and suspension stroke.
Im not picking on anyones softy. If your happy with it then fine. But they are the laws of 4x4ing.
Not in my book - they come from a long proud lineage of big 4X4 ar$e kickers. Just too small to be comfy tourers, and get a tough rep because people ask them to do things that they shouldn't.
"Is a suzuki jimni considered a soft roader?"
Well I dont know. Who coined the term softroader and what does it mean? If it fails any of the above comments, I dont know if it is or isnt due to GBC's claims of tuff petigree. But I wouldnt give it a second look.
Im bias though. Cruiser and patrol all the way. Like most on here, If it doesnt have live axle front Im not interested at all. But, even then in standard form they need serious upgrades and modification. So where do you draw the line at compairing apples? I think you can only go off what you think is the best 4x4 (end result/final product)
Potensial wise, cruiser and patrol are the best with the correct upgrades and modifications. The other 4bies hit the wall pretty early on.
I dont have time to check out all the new pretend 4x4's, theres just too many of them. Id love to be a driver/tester for a magazine. Id flog the hell out of them and break them in about 20 minutes flat. Anyone have a 4x4 they want to lend me
Just curious on your thoughts. My aunt and uncle own a cattle station (1 million acres) and they run a fleet of suzuki's for mustering. The only mods they run is a steel roll cage welded on the outside of the vehicle. They go where the patrols and cruisers cant go."Is a suzuki jimni considered a soft roader?"
Well I dont know. Who coined the term softroader and what does it mean? If it fails any of the above comments, I dont know if it is or isnt due to GBC's claims of tuff petigree. But I wouldnt give it a second look.
Im bias though. Cruiser and patrol all the way. Like most on here, If it doesnt have live axle front Im not interested at all. But, even then in standard form they need serious upgrades and modification. So where do you draw the line at compairing apples? I think you can only go off what you think is the best 4x4 (end result/final product)
Potensial wise, cruiser and patrol are the best with the correct upgrades and modifications. The other 4bies hit the wall pretty early on.
I dont have time to check out all the new pretend 4x4's, theres just too many of them. Id love to be a driver/tester for a magazine. Id flog the hell out of them and break them in about 20 minutes flat. Anyone have a 4x4 they want to lend me
Is that only because of their size?
Once again compairing apples. In standard form sure. But upgraded and moded, dont beleive it for a second. Its hard for me to comment sometimes, because the picture in my mind is different to everyones elses. And comments like "THEY GO WHERE THE PATROLS AND CRUISERS CANT GO" annoys the crap out of me, because I know its complete bs. Yeah, because all the top comp trucks are jimni's hey.
Ive seen a heap of suzi's on runs. Fully moded. More powerful engine, widened wheel base, big tyres, locker etc.. But they still dont go anywhere near as good as a cruiser or patrol. Their short wheel base lets them down heaps.
Heres a vid. Suzie then a few patrols. Its a shoot for 4x4 monthly. Its good because they have taken some stock, some with only lockers, some with big travel and lockers, and then full comp rigs.
And look at the 3rd vid of the well set up 80 series.. Easy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L258K...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UseUC1tuh_M&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHIm...layer_embedded
Is that roll cage incase 1 of the cattle turns on them
Is that only because of their size?
Once again compairing apples. In standard form sure. But upgraded and moded, dont beleive it for a second. Its hard for me to comment sometimes, because the picture in my mind is different to everyones elses. And comments like "THEY GO WHERE THE PATROLS AND CRUISERS CANT GO" annoys the crap out of me, because I know its complete bs. Yeah, because all the top comp trucks are jimni's hey.
Ive seen a heap of suzi's on runs. Fully moded. More powerful engine, widened wheel base, big tyres, locker etc.. But they still dont go anywhere near as good as a cruiser or patrol. Their short wheel base lets them down heaps.
Heres a vid. Suzie then a few patrols. Its a shoot for 4x4 monthly. Its good because they have taken some stock, some with only lockers, some with big travel and lockers, and then full comp rigs.
And look at the 3rd vid of the well set up 80 series.. Easy...
Is that roll cage incase 1 of the cattle turns on them
On the weekend, I saw a patrol up the beach, bogged to the axles. I watched a lada niva zip past him with no issues, likewise I passed him in my low clearance toy navara.
My point is, that soafroaders are just as capable as a patrol or 4wd in conditions over certain off road terrain. Making comparisons to comp trucks and modified vehicles is stupid, because in the same situation a standard landcruiser the standard landcruiser would not do half the shit a comp truck does.
By your own definition, a soft roader should be better on the sand. You claim that by using larger tires and/or lowering pressure on a larger vehicle that it spreads the load over the sand. This is physics, not the laws of 4wd'ing. By the same definition a softroader that is a third to half the weight needs less surface area to spread the load. As for power, once again being a third
to half the weight of a larger 4wd they only require a smaller engine.
AS for clearance, my stock Navara stx goes anywhere I want on fraser. Last time I went there I had a mate who came along in a dihatsu feroza that had the same clearance. At the time there was all those rocks exposed along the beach (chard etc). I had to wait to get around the rocks, he just drove over them. Shorter wheel base makes a big diferrence too.
Remeber, we were talking about Fraser Island, for the best part of the island its hardly what I would call challenging 4wd terrritory. I have seen many people do it on soft roaders, and I have seen many do it better than those in the patrols and cruisers.
Im over this thread...
"My point is, that smaller 4x4's are just as capable as a patrol or 4wd in conditions over certain off road terrain. Making comparisons to comp trucks and modified vehicles is stupid, because in the same situation a standard landcruiser the standard landcruiser would not do half the shit a comp truck does."
Yes, you are right. Like ive said 600times already. When it comes to soft sand. Smaller lighter 4x4's do things a bit easier than big, heavy underpowered 4x4's (in standard form). But the small 4bies tyres still dig, just not as deep. Until you get to a deep water crossing or suspension hill, inwhich you cant pass. (sometimes fraser, strad, moreton, dunes and desert etc... Not only 1 beach or island.)
Just because it says cruiser or patrol on the side doesnt mean SH#T. Its about the set up. Noone builds a fully moded rig just for the beach, because you dont have too. Most 4x4's can make it (some harder going than others). Comp trucks on the beach is just a by product. Most guys spend all their money and only have the 1 4x4 and have no choice. Inwhich I have stated that bigger tyres (35's or bigger) and changing gearing/uping power doesnt just match the small 4x4's. It flogs them... Being able to glide over the top of the sand is a huge advantage.
Imagine, these in allterains. If im on an island for a week or so. I let my tyres down to 10 - 12 psi, and 5-7 in the bush..
When you can tow a loaded hilux (dead weight) through nagala. The way it used to be with heaps of soft sand. Then come talk to me.
When I finish my new 80 and we have a meet and greet on a beach. You guys are more than welcome to test it out. I go everywhere in 2wd. Ill put it in 4wd and lets see if you can get it bogged... Hows that sound?
Ok, Talking to 1 of my mates. I told him a guy saw a patrol stuck and a niva drove right passed and now the niva is better than a patrol and he just laughed. But I think ive nailed it now...
If you go up the beach and see a cruiser or patrol bogged, and yours doesnt. You should say "my truck is better than THAT 1. or your just a better driver" Not better than the badge of the 4x4 stuck. Having said that. Alot of the smaller 4x4's badges has serious limit and restriction that you just cant get passed nomatter what you do or how much you spend. ie.. Tyre size, weak suspension, weak engines etc. So as good as they go now, they are never going to be able to go any better "In most cases". And thats why we dont like them...
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