Could you and your boat handle sudden adverse conditions when offshore ?

[Jeremy]

Posting this new thread in response to this question by Pinhead "Could you and your boat handle sudden adverse conditions when offshore?"

I am all for safety, but personally I think this is a silly question the way it is asked, and Pinhead's response that if the answer is no, then you should not be going offshore. Not having a go at Pinhead at all. It is a good question and deserves some thought in a seperate post.

I have previously taken my 4.5m centre console 30 km offshore from the Gold Coast seaway and currently own a 4.4m half cab, which I also take well offshore. Being a small boat, I am realistic that it would struggle if conditions turned for the worse. Fuel would be my major concern, as I am reasonably sure that I would stay afloat in under 30 knots as long as I kept the nose into the swell.

However, I am confident taking it offshore because I have all safety gear including 406 EPIRB, VHF radio, dual batteries, carry plenty of fuel, flare kit, usually log on, tell someone onshore plans of where I am going and when I will be back etc. I always check the weather on several sites carefully, as well as current wave heights. Lets remember that offshore includes 200m outside the Mooloolaba rock walls.

Everyday we all encounter risks, from driving on the road, to crossing the road, to using the toaster. I do not wish to live in a bubble, and I will live my life and take associated risks as I judge acceptable.

That is why I consider it an acceptable risk to go well offshore in a small boat.

Thanks for asking the question Pinhead, and I have no problems with others who may not consider the risk acceptable.

Jeremy

[Skusto]

you are correct there mate the risk that we encounter every day, but to me planning your days outside are more of a controlled risk if the forecast are near perfect 5-10kn variable winds then u could go outside in nearly everything yes there is a slight possibility that the weather may "blow up" but wat would be the associated chances for that to happen? its a risk but so is driving a car but yet we accept those risks on a day to day basis.

we used to go all the way out to deep tempest in a 4.2m stacer tinne launching from shorncliffe, yes some people used to think we were mad and that it was stupid but as long as we picked the days then the boat handled great, it done its job got us out there and was quite a good little boat once out, we know have a 560 barcrusher and the only reason why we went bigger is because its more comfortable, quicker and u dont need to really pick your days as much anymore and well if the wind goes to crap we know that the boat can handle it got caught in a 20-25 South easterly last year with about a 3-4m swell and this boat handled it well didnt feel in danger the whole time we were coming back!

[darkside]

Jeremy , my belief is it's more to do with the capabilitys of the skipper than the type of boat , odds are i would probably feel more comfortable 40 Kms offshore with you in your boat , than say some "spud" who has just spent $60 000 on his first boat and cant wait to get outside.

When an ocean liner goes belly up , all the people jump into small life rafts and even smaller dinghys, and they seem happy enough, but thats my opinion , i'm sure others will beg to differ.!!

[hakuna]

I have been called over the years to do a number of rescues especially night . I ask you this, have you ever been under an upside down boat that has no sealed fuel tanks, and where do you store your EPIRB.
In the cases I have been involved with the epirb was always a mission to find instead of being in a position that you can reach in from the outside or through the screen to get it.
The amount of residule fuel, ropes and associated items that were loose in the boat made it extremelly dangerous to dive under the boat, even with mask and flippers.
Many have boats that are unfit for the river let alone the sea. How long do you think your boat will float?
few people think about it untill it is too late

[darkside]

Hakuna, good point , but i was also referring to the law of common sense and i believe if the skipper is competent then part of his risk assesment involves knowing his capabilities and his boats, how many brand new 4wds do you see stuck up the beach or washed away in flood waters because the driver isn't capable. And i did mean a seaworthy boat , not this one

[BM]

I'll go out on a limb here and say that in all my years on the water I have never seen a "freak" wave or sudden adverse conditions. Period.

Part of boating is proper planning. This means that an offshore journey means having a good look at the expected weather patterns prior to journey and again looking at the projected weather patterns JUST PRIOR to your journey.

In my experience conditions do not go from lovely to shitfull in 5 minutes, WITHOUT WARNING. Expected forecast, cloud formations increasing, swell increase and shit, many other factors can tell you that things are changing and there is an issue arising.

Failure to hear of, see and comprehend such issues is a negligent act of the skipper, completely.

I have fished offshore in Vic many times and never had anything that I could call an "issue". Nothing to do with intelligence or anything else. Simply to do with "due diligence".

Cheers

[hakuna]

BM, sorry have to disagree.
I have been going to see for many years, had an experience off Ballina 15 years ago, sea 1.2, we crossed just before daylight. I was approx 5km east of the bar when in front of me was what seemed a wall of water and shadows, we went over the first one, second broke on the windscreen, drove it through me and filled us up. we looked around us and the sea was flat. We were able to get a warning off and the coastguard recalled all boats just crossing. I believe experince in positioning the boat through white water bars is the only thing that saved me on that day.
Since I have a HUUUGE respect for the sea.
It scares me when I go to the 50s on the gold coast and see a 4.5m boat.

[BM]

Nothing wrong with disagreeing mate! It keeps us all honest!!!

BOM does say that the wave heights predicted are the average of the upper 30% or so and actuals may be up to 40% bigger?

Of course there could also be extremely localised weather issues that would have a very intense short term impact but again I am referring to the anticipated conditions for a region as a whole.

Not discounting your skippering experience for one second so therefore won't argue with you. I have not seen a freak wave ever. You may have, and thats fine. Perhaps I have not been in such waters to experience one?

cheers

[Midnight]

Gday,
Darkside, that table looks exactly like the one in my dining room, no kidding! I'm goin shopping for a Blue band 9.9 Merc tomorrow!!

But back to the topic, I agree more to do with skipper than vessel.
Boats float.
Thats what they are designed to do. But they only do this if you keep the water on the outside!(RIBs and Boston Whalers excepted)

I will back my Berty 25 in far worse conditions than I would ever intentionally be in, it is a great sea boat, no two ways about it. But it will sink to the bottom as quick as a heart beat should I ever let it fill with water. No positive bouyancy to speak of. If you get caught out big time, motor bow up, just enough to maintain steerage and ride it out, otherwise a para anchor of the bow does a marvellous job.

Learn to read a synoptic chart, use the web for all its weather sources, and keep the VHF on for updates and don't get surprised.

My 2 cents,
Stay safe,
Cheers,
Myles

P.S Skusto, 14 foot tinnies from Shorncliife to offshore, been there done that

[FNQCairns]

Yes because I only go boating when it's nice, still we get squalls up here in summer sometime multiple in any day, 95% of them are 30kn or less but a boat could get hit by 3 in 6 hours if unlucky each lasting 15 or so minutes.

I see those micro cars in the 80-100km/h zone all the time, if a cricket ball and a bowling ball meet coming from different directions travelling the same speed I would rather my family was in the Patrol and will pay the added costs involved to keep that option available because after all outside of family or those who would consider themselves family.... 2 years later on average who really gives a crap whether any individual walked the earth or not.

Boating is no different, I saw a 4m wide body dory 45km offshore yesterday sometimes i see smaller craft out just as far.

Do a google search on freak or rogue wave and the QE2, they are out there...but the QE2 is a little unaffordable this year with the increase in rego and just about everything else.

cheers fnq

[gillogs]

certainly does get the brain ticking over,unexpected does happen,and you certainly cant buy experience,risks weighed up against enjoyment,well the list goes on.hakuna here's a question for you, i have an open boat tiller steer,i beach launch sometimes if the local entrance is open an safe i cross it,its a 440 mako truck powered by a late model 40 2 stroke tiller,where do i put my epirb?it has under floor flotation but how long would it stay a float?would any one know?i hope i never find out.

[FNQCairns]

certainly does get the brain ticking over,unexpected does happen,and you certainly cant buy experience,risks weighed up against enjoyment,well the list goes on.hakuna here's a question for you, i have an open boat tiller steer,i beach launch sometimes if the local entrance is open an safe i cross it,its a 440 mako truck powered by a late model 40 2 stroke tiller,where do i put my epirb?it has under floor flotation but how long would it stay a float?would any one know?i hope i never find out.

Styrofoam? then days to weeks assuming it wasn't originally only just floating....that is also assuming your fuel didn't spread and turn it to mush!

cheers fnq

[Grand_Marlin]

I think a lot of people get an extra sense of security knowing there are other bigger boats around them, as well as the Coast Guard / VMR stations all up and down the coast... at least if something happens while they are pushing the limit of their craft to the max, then someone will pull them out of the $hit.

I personally believe that your boat should be able to handle anything that the sea can throw at it.

Yes, check forecasts, know your own limitations as a skipper, carry all the right safety gear, log on with VMR etc. etc. etc.

BUT

If things go awfully wrong, your choice of boat may well save your life.
Granted, any size boat can get into trouble for all types of reasons, but as we are talking about the weather the smaller boats in question are certainly more vulnerable.

Most boats are capable of handling a 20 - 25 knot blow. Sure, it gets rough and the waves stand up a bit, but nothing like a 40+ knot blow where the wind has a big impact on the handling of your boat, the wave heights get huge and there is a hell of a lot of breaking water around you.
Not common, but certainly not rare circumstances... Storm cells in Queensland / NSW, Southerly Busters down south.

It is right about now that you start to question all your gear and your self reasoning for being out there in a small boat in the first place.

If everything holds up and you get back, you say "Never Again" and start to look for a bigger boat with twin fuel, twin batteries, self draining decks, positive buoyancy, high gunwales and a cabin structure for shedding breaking waves.

If you end up in the water and you haven't been knocked unconscious or sustained major injuries / cuts in the process, you start to question whether your radio call that wasn't acknowledged got through, is your EPIRB working, will someone get to me in time, will my family miss me ...

Everyone thinks "It won't happen to me" ... but it can, and does, every year.

My advice?

Ideally, get a boat that is capable of handling such conditions.

Get a mindset that you have to rely on yourself, not others, and prepare your boat accordingly.

Think twice about taking small boats way offshore. Your risk is a lot greater every extra mile you go out.

If you are going to take a small boat a long way offshore, pack every bit of extra safety you can into it.
VHF Radio & possibly a waterproof hand held VHF as backup.
Foam flotation (fuel resistant)
Twin Batteries and try to keep them where the water can't kill them.
Separate fuel, even if it is a 20 litre portable fuel tank.
Make sure you have a good water separating fuel filter.
2 big ass bilge pumps around 2000+ GPH each.
Canvas spray dodgers on bow rails of open and centre console boats.
Make your transom / engine well full height, even with add on plates to stop water getting in the boat.
Plug up all holes where engine cables come in / out of the transom.

At least then you give yourself a sporting chance...

And yeah ... been there done that ... ended up in the water once (5m boat 60+ knot winds off the SE coast of Tassie), lucky to live ... never want to do that again.

Cheers

Pete - (Sharkcat owner forever)

[Grand_Marlin]

its a 440 mako truck powered by a late model 40 2 stroke tiller,where do i put my epirb?it has under floor flotation but how long would it stay a float?would any one know?i hope i never find out.

Wouldn't it be nice to know instead of guessing?

Maybe it is time people started to look at the Survey Rules and how / why they set up commercial boats the way they do.
The Australian manufacturers aren't going to do it because they dont have to and it adds more cost to the boat.
I highly question the poor attempt at flotation put in by some manufacturers in Australia.

As far as foam goes, weigh your boat & gear and (from memory??) you need 1 cubic metre of foam per tonne to make it positively buoyant.
Some foam must also be placed up higher on the gunwales etc to stop it from "turning turtle"
I cant remember % factor for the split up of above v's below floor foam.

As a foot note ... All American boats are built to survey.

Cheers

Pete

[Wahoo]

but nothing like a 40+ knot blow where the wind has a big impact on the handling of your boat, the wave heights get huge




Pete - (Sharkcat owner forever)

this happened to me about 6 weeks ago, blowing what i call 40knts and big seas, heading home and swell was side on, we had a few small break into the boat,the wind and rain was hitting us that hard it was stinging my face, i had to put the hood of the raincoat on to stop it and read the GPS heading, very hard to steer the boat, all happened at night to top it off, was i scared........no, did not have time to think about being scared and believe me you dont, i had to have 100% concertration (sp) on getting back safe, it did put me off night trips for a little while, and for a few days after it was still in my head as to why this happened and a lot of what If's

Daz