Could you and your boat handle sudden adverse conditions when offshore ?

[Horse]

Well the question to be asked would be, what would be the minimum size boat one could take offshore, and have have a chance of bringing it back safe. I would think no less than 5m as a generic rule of thumb. Would I be right ?

I don't think size is the issue. I have been in many 5m+ boats that felt untrustworthy in any sort of sea from a particular direction. I have been out in our 12' Niad and felt very safe under the right conditions. I reckon when the sh#t really hits the fan the most important thing is the skips knowledge , experience and feel for the boat

[TJ Bear]

Agree 100% with Horse the size of your boat is not the issue when dealing with any boat that is trailerable, skippers ability and judgement is far more important.

[Brumby]

Not sure that I agree 100% with you TJ Bear, all else being equal I reckon a big big 'un is always going to be a better bet than a smaller boat. I rate my Signature 492 pretty highly for it's size, but when the smelly stuff hits the prop, I know I'd far rather be in the Mustang, if nothing else the extra weight is helpful to punch through and it isn't as easily blown or pushed off course.

[kind_cir]

A poor design is a poor design in any size.
And a poor unskilled skipper is a por unsafe skipper in bad conditions.

The point I was trying to make was if your a reasonabley compedent skipper in a reasonalbly designed boat, out on a reasonably sort of day, that could reasonabaly turn to blow 20- 25knts while your say a reasonable distance offshore. What size boat would be the minimum ? I would think 5m would be as small as you'd want to go. given the above would I be right.


Sure we can go on about shit hot skippers in smaller boats, or adverage skippers in smaller super performing well designed boats, or total newbies in 6.5m boats.

At the end of the day with all being average, what would be the minimum sizeto take on the average day that could averagely turn turn to be a slightly below average day and you would be able to get home safley.

[TJ Bear]

I think you may have missed my point a good skipper would not put a boat that he did not deem suitable for the conditions in a position where it was unsafe. A good skipper understands enough about boat design and construction to know what different boats are capable of.

Size I do not believe is a dertimining factor in the consideration of how seaworthy a vessel is. For example a 6.5m boat with an old unserviced 2-stroke, no water seperating fuel filter, dry rot in transom or stringers, unserviced steering, no VHF, small capacity bilge pump, single old 12v battery, etc etc may not be as seaworthy as a 4.5m Haines 445F with well maintained 4-stroke, water seperating fuel filter, dual dry cell batteries, serviced hydraulic steering etc. Just my opinion but I don't think size indicates if a boat is seaworthy and safe. Hull design, displacement, construction method etc also have to be considered and will be by an experienced skipper when deciding the conditions that a boat can safely handle. Taj Bush recently purchased a Formula 15 which is basicaly a flop of the haines 445F and he regularly fishes it well offshore in places such as Bermi and Merrimbula in conditions that wouldn exceed 20 knots. The boat is well made and of exceptional design, has ample flotation and is well equiped and maintained.

[kind_cir]

Yep there are a lot of variables, but take them out of the equasion and just make it all round adverage. Then what would be the minimum size vessel ?

[Pretzil]

I tend to think I could cope, I know my boat and I know when to turn back.

But you see it quite often that things can go wrong even for the most experienced, just so many variables so you have to try to eliminate as many as you can, but you can never eliminate them all.

[black runner]

All you can say really is that the smaller (and more poorly setup) the boat, the more proportionally difficult/uncomfortable it will become in adverse conditions. As a guidline Marine and Safety Tas recommend that boats under 6m should confine themselves to sheltered waters ie 2nm offshore on the north and east coasts (still weather dependant of course). Its less on the west and south coasts for reasons of potential weather and sea states but also proximity to habitation and rescue services.

Having said that it depends on design/construction and how familiar the skipper is with the boat. For example I would rather skipper my own 460 that I know, than a 5 metre that I don't in adverse conditions. As a design example the 460 I have now would be more bouyant in the rear end has higher freeboard and less likely to take water over the back than the traditional transom dinghy style that I used to have. Its also beamy and inherently more stable and has more freeboard than some others of the same size. But there are also other more capable and better riding designs in the same size, and less capable in longer sizes.

If I were looking to buy a planing trailerboat to go "offshore" occasionally with confidence, then a well designed & constructed sealed deck (or at least positive bouyancy) cuddy/cabin boat in the 5.4ish metre minimum range would be my starting point. It would be set up with truly useful auxillary power (either twins or decent sized aux that will actually get you home with separate fuel and electrical systems). But that's me - when your broken down outside in the crap, its not like a car where you can pull over, make a phone call and have a snooze until someone picks you up.
Cheers

[Jeremy]

How many people buy a boat and decide to go offshore fishing. They may not be sure of the boat's capabilities or of their own. They think they have picked the right weather and head out..all is good on most trips but there is always the one where the weather goes pear shaped and they and their boat is found wanting on many fronts.
I could probably put myself in this situation. The boat was not bought with offshore fishing in mind. However, it could be suited to it with the right weather conditions. It has positive level flotation..self draining sealed deck..2 bilge pumps..EPIRB..life jackets, flares etc etc etc.
Then there is the skipper..me. I have done Bill's bar crossing course and also ventured offshore on a few charters. Seasickness is not a problem..have never had it.

Being the realist that I am..I have asked myself if I could handle most situations if conditions go pear shaped when offshore. The answer is a definitve no. I do not believe I have the skills to handle those situations hence why I have not ventured offshore. That does not worry me..I am happy just pottering around in the bay and estuaries but I wish everyone could honestly answer the question:
Could you and your boat handle sudden adverse conditions when offshore ?

if there is any doubt then I would suggest not venturing out there.

This is a more complete quote of pinheads post which prompted me to start this thread. He seems to have a capable boat which I believe is around 25ft+, although I have not seen it. He has also done a bar crossing course and spent time offshore fishing.

Absolutely no criticism of pinhead's decision not to take his boat offshore. I think it just reflects the degree of risk taking behaviour in your personality to some extent. I know I am to some extent a risk taker, and in addition to believing that there is more fun and skill involved in catching a given fish on lighter line, I think the same goes for boats. Catching large pelagics/snapper from a small boat is IMHO more kudos than the same fish from a bigger boat.

Maybe it is a question of how far it is 'safe' to push the boundary? Anyone else remember the skipper (Rob aka Mackmauler) who caught a blue marlin in his 14' tinny?

Will stop rambling now.

Jeremy

[finding_time]

.

If I were looking to buy a planing trailerboat to go "offshore" occasionally with confidence, then a well designed & constructed sealed deck (or at least positive bouyancy) cuddy/cabin boat in the 5.4ish metre minimum range would be my starting point. It would be set up with truly useful auxillary power (either twins or decent sized aux that will actually get you home with separate fuel and electrical systems). But that's me - when your broken down outside in the crap, its not like a car where you can pull over, make a phone call and have a snooze until someone picks you up.
Cheers

So what you would like is a cat!!

Sorry couldn't help myself

Ian

[finding_time]

This is a more complete quote of pinheads post which prompted me to start this thread. He seems to have a capable boat which I believe is around 25ft+, although I have not seen it. He has also done a bar crossing course and spent time offshore fishing.

Absolutely no criticism of pinhead's decision not to take his boat offshore. I think it just reflects the degree of risk taking behaviour in your personality to some extent. I know I am to some extent a risk taker, and in addition to believing that there is more fun and skill involved in catching a given fish on lighter line, I think the same goes for boats. Catching large pelagics/snapper from a small boat is IMHO more kudos than the same fish from a bigger boat.

Maybe it is a question of how far it is 'safe' to push the boundary? Anyone else remember the skipper (Rob aka Mackmauler) who caught a blue marlin in his 14' tinny?

Will stop rambling now.

Jeremy

Jeremy

I believe Pinheads boat is a 18 footer from memory. And as far a Rob ( mackmauler) goes it all about experience as many have said. Robs boat isn't really a tinnie as such , it and 4.3m ocean cylinder with a 60 hp 4 stroke yamaha, so it's got a reliable engine, a sealed self draining deck, and plenty of positive bouyancy in the right areas. So whilst that's in his favour it's his experience offshore that is his biggest asset. Rob has done many 3 day( 2 night) trips in his OC off mooloolaba , the breaksea spit area, and 1770, and if you do 3 day trips in a 4.3m boat with crew onboard you get very very good at reading weather patterns, or you get very sore and cold! I've been in plenty of bigger boats that if the shit hit the fan i would get out of and into robs OC with him skippering in a second! Sometimes little boat can be good in a larger sea as they fit inbetween the sea, not bridging it which drives the nose under, there a bit like a cork . It would be uncomfortable though but imho safe!

Ian

[black runner]

So what you would like is a cat!!

Sorry couldn't help myself

Ian

Quite possibly Ian. What is yours?

[TJ Bear]

Agree with you Finding Time there are a lot of very expensive trailerboats out there that in truly dangerous conditions I would gladly jump out of and into an OC with a good skipper, a real seaworthy little boat with tons of bouancy where it needs to be above the waterline and an effective self bailing sealed floor just putt along home, you may get wet but you will get there.

[Bear001]

Lots of good constructive conversation here.

Went to Moreton Bay last Sept in my 4m Hornet Trophy - not one little bit suited to the 35knot northerly wind we spent a week with! That being said, although certainly not a comfortable trip, we managed. I think it comes down to being confident in both your ability and boat to handle the situation.

More to the point, although this thread is about offshore fishing, it is worth noting that inland dams and rivers can also be subject to some pretty extreme weather at times too. I fish 90% of the time by myself on a dam where most days, there is no-one else out there. I ALWAYS tell somewhere when Im going, and ring when back on land to give the OK. If they havent heard from me about 1/2hr after dark (say 9.30pm in summer) then come lookin!

'Plan as best you can' would be my motto. There will always be a the chance of an unplanned freak situation that MIGHT bring you unstuck.....(or wet your pants at the least)...but sometimes that all adds to your experince too.

[Bowser]

A poor design is a poor design in any size.
And a poor unskilled skipper is a por unsafe skipper in bad conditions.

The point I was trying to make was if your a reasonabley compedent skipper in a reasonalbly designed boat, out on a reasonably sort of day, that could reasonabaly turn to blow 20- 25knts while your say a reasonable distance offshore. What size boat would be the minimum ? I would think 5m would be as small as you'd want to go. given the above would I be right.


Sure we can go on about shit hot skippers in smaller boats, or adverage skippers in smaller super performing well designed boats, or total newbies in 6.5m boats.

At the end of the day with all being average, what would be the minimum sizeto take on the average day that could averagely turn turn to be a slightly below average day and you would be able to get home safley.

I think you miss the point here, a decent skipper in a well founded boat will get you home in conditione that gey a bit below average, whereas a 10m boat may not be the go if conditions turned cyclonic 20nm offshore. I feel comfortable and safe offshore in my 15footer because I pick the conditions and the day. I don't do overnighters and never do late day trips in spring and summer in SEQ. I also pick my location as I know I can come home downhill quite well. If the prediction has a bit of north in it I go north and south if it is likely to be south. That way I know that the wind will be mainly on my back.

Personally I have had weather get a lot worse in the bay then offshore (probably because I pick the day). Bad bay conditions with seas to 1.5 or 2m 5 m apart side on are very interesting to say the least.