Could you and your boat handle sudden adverse conditions when offshore ?

[Jeremy]

I think a lot of people get an extra sense of security knowing there are other bigger boats around them, as well as the Coast Guard / VMR stations all up and down the coast... at least if something happens while they are pushing the limit of their craft to the max, then someone will pull them out of the $hit.

I personally believe that your boat should be able to handle anything that the sea can throw at it.

Yes, check forecasts, know your own limitations as a skipper, carry all the right safety gear, log on with VMR etc. etc. etc.

BUT

If things go awfully wrong, your choice of boat may well save your life.
Granted, any size boat can get into trouble for all types of reasons, but as we are talking about the weather the smaller boats in question are certainly more vulnerable.

Most boats are capable of handling a 20 - 25 knot blow. Sure, it gets rough and the waves stand up a bit, but nothing like a 40+ knot blow where the wind has a big impact on the handling of your boat, the wave heights get huge and there is a hell of a lot of breaking water around you.
Not common, but certainly not rare circumstances... Storm cells in Queensland / NSW, Southerly Busters down south.

It is right about now that you start to question all your gear and your self reasoning for being out there in a small boat in the first place.

If everything holds up and you get back, you say "Never Again" and start to look for a bigger boat with twin fuel, twin batteries, self draining decks, positive buoyancy, high gunwales and a cabin structure for shedding breaking waves.

If you end up in the water and you haven't been knocked unconscious or sustained major injuries / cuts in the process, you start to question whether your radio call that wasn't acknowledged got through, is your EPIRB working, will someone get to me in time, will my family miss me ...

Everyone thinks "It won't happen to me" ... but it can, and does, every year.

My advice?

Ideally, get a boat that is capable of handling such conditions.

Get a mindset that you have to rely on yourself, not others, and prepare your boat accordingly.

Think twice about taking small boats way offshore. Your risk is a lot greater every extra mile you go out.

If you are going to take a small boat a long way offshore, pack every bit of extra safety you can into it.
VHF Radio & possibly a waterproof hand held VHF as backup.
Foam flotation (fuel resistant)
Twin Batteries and try to keep them where the water can't kill them.
Separate fuel, even if it is a 20 litre portable fuel tank.
Make sure you have a good water separating fuel filter.
2 big ass bilge pumps around 2000+ GPH each.
Canvas spray dodgers on bow rails of open and centre console boats.
Make your transom / engine well full height, even with add on plates to stop water getting in the boat.
Plug up all holes where engine cables come in / out of the transom.

At least then you give yourself a sporting chance...

And yeah ... been there done that ... ended up in the water once (5m boat 60+ knot winds off the SE coast of Tassie), lucky to live ... never want to do that again.

Cheers

Pete - (Sharkcat owner forever)

Alot of good points there Pete. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and I must say that you make a great cat salesman . It is true that in a small boat, I do take comfort in knowing that there are other boats nearby and that I can reach the CG/VMR on the radio. 30km is a long way to swim, and I know that without an EPIRB my chances of baing found from the air would be slim.

Good to read the questions and views of others on here, and I might even change where I keep the safety grab bag. BUT, you buy what you can afford, fit it out as best you can with the safety and navigation gear you can afford, and take a calculated risk in going offshore. Hell, even boating in smooth waters is not without risk. Sad to say many have lost their lives in protected waters while boating. I guess the extent of the risk that we are prepared to take is an individual thing - age, experience, family, personality etc - and I am not going to criticise anyone for the level of risk they are prepared to take.

Jeremy

[Dicko]

Wouldn't it be nice to know instead of guessing?

Maybe it is time people started to look at the Survey Rules and how / why they set up commercial boats the way they do.
The Australian manufacturers aren't going to do it because they dont have to and it adds more cost to the boat.
I highly question the poor attempt at flotation put in by some manufacturers in Australia.

As far as foam goes, weigh your boat & gear and (from memory??) you need 1 cubic metre of foam per tonne to make it positively buoyant.
Some foam must also be placed up higher on the gunwales etc to stop it from "turning turtle"
I cant remember % factor for the split up of above v's below floor foam.

As a foot note ... All American boats are built to survey.

Cheers

Pete

Here's some good info I used as a guide when modifying my Stessl 5 or 6 years ago. It's basically a guide for self builders to comply with the US coast guard standards. I would imagine it's very close or the same as the reqirements for commercial builders

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/educati...atbuilders.pdf

There's a fair bit of calculating and planning, (and converting to metric) but it's quite an interesting, even eye opening exercise to modify your flotation to those standards. You're right, the aussie boat builders are catching up, but are still far behind the US requirements. When I'd finished it ended up exceeding the level flotation calculations by about 20%.

If the day comes that I end up in a 'spot of bother', I would much rather be floating around WITH a swamped boat, than swimming around on my own with the boat somewhere on the bottom.

With my kids on board at times it's even more of a no brainer. I definately don't want the boat sinking from under us.

Funnily enough I just ordered a new boat, it's coming from the US so all is done for me.

[hakuna]

gillogs, in reply to where to place your epirb in an open tinnie, somewhere fixed to the side. I can tell you from experience I had to dive under a boat on the evans head bar that was an upturned tinnie about 5m. The guy actually tried to follow me out and got cleaned up. We were missing one of them. I got fuel burnes to my face when I went under the boat as when it turns upside down it will trap all the fuel pouring out of youe fuel lines.
Personally If I had a vessel that size I would get positive flotation in it, that is proportioning the amount of flotation under the gunnels so as it will roll up the right way. Some guru can confirm the amounts.
An example of flotation is on the Goldstar Boats web site and an explanation of how it works.
This time of the year if you swamp your boat you have about 4 hours to live, hyperthermia will kill you before the elements will.
Be aware just because it states it will roll the right way up does not say this will happen as they are not tested in bar situations, but at least if it floats you have a chance.
There was a good storey on this about 12 months ago up north were 3 blokes set out fishing and due to a set of circumstances they ended up on an upturned boat and realised know one knew they went fishing. 3 days later they lived, but doubt if any of them will ever go to sea again.
Somthing that is close to my heart that I recently sold my boat and am getting a 6.8m goldstar excalabur built with positive flotation, twins. I want the best chance I can to me and my crew.

[gillogs]

thanks hakuna will take that info on board,luckily on the mid north coast of nsw all my fishing is inshore,between 1 - 6 k's from the coast at any given time,glad i dont have to travel the large distances most of the guys up north do,but as i crossed the bar through the old bar entrance yesterday morning i was thinking plenty of day trippers could easily come unstuck,beach launching for years does give you a good grounding and respect for the ocean and the power of even a small wave if you are in the wrong position. cheers gillogs

[Jackinthebox]

If you are out in the daytime and get "caught out" by a "sudden weather change", then you have no right to be out there!


* Learn to read a synoptic chart

* Be aware of increasing swell by checking surfing websites such as coastalwatch.com

* Keep an eye on the sky and ocean whilst you are out there and stop putting all your faith in that bloody seabreeze website!

Rant over!

[Noelm]

I think Jackinthebox is pretty close there, not too many "storms" "big blows" just spring up in 10 minutes without warning, lots of things can be these warnings, cloud is the very obvious one, clouds form with specific shapes, these shapes can herald storm and/or wind activity, learn to actualy "see" whats going on around you, to rely entirely on a weather forecast and blame "them" if you come unstuck is just not on, it is a forecast, not the gospel truth!

[Goldfinch]

I've been out in my Haines 6.5m a couple of times when the weather has turned bad. Once off Moreton and once in Fraser bay. On both occasions, the two things that saved my ass were, having a boat that can handle the conditions well and secondly, spending about 100 hours offshore fishing with someone who has been doing it since he was 10 years old. You can learn from experience but you can learn a lot more from someone who is far more experienced. I'm sure there are plenty of guys and girls on this forum who have plenty of experience to share and for whatever reason, don't own an offshore boat anymore. Invite them onboard if you think you need a Mentor, it may save your life.

Stay safe!!!

Cheers
Dave

[The_Tub]

Hi to all

me personally i have been fishing at sea at ballina and evans head for the last 10/12 years, i watch the weather carefully days before i go out or have a good idea of the weather pattern at the time,if i thought it was going to be dodgey or i had a doubt in my ability or that of my boats cababilities for the conditions i would'nt go.About 10years ago while fishing the river the ballina bar was not breaking in the morning and i noticed at the ramp there where quite afew boats at sea,by 11am the bar was roaring with a 3/4m southerly swell,i thought to myself there are alot of boats out there and have to come back through it,i hope there on the money,i know of 1 boat he came back in through evans,he'd been going to sea for 20 years and it's by far the biggest swell he had to come back through,interesting about the floatation,i think i will look into it,hope i don't need it

[Jabba_]

If you are out in the daytime and get "caught out" by a "sudden weather change", then you have no right to be out there!


* Learn to read a synoptic chart

* Be aware of increasing swell by checking surfing websites such as coastalwatch.com

* Keep an eye on the sky and ocean whilst you are out there and stop putting all your faith in that bloody seabreeze website!

Rant over!

I wish it was as easy as you say, because I always do what you have listed and I was still caught in a cracker off a storm..
On one particular morning we had just arive at the 50's and noticed a large amout off cloud behind the mountain rang,,, We checked with VMR about the looming clouds, and we were advised at the time they were no threat,... 1hr later those clouds built up and started to move over the coast and they moved bloody fast..

A weather warning was radioed over the VHF's.. We radioed back and ask for more detail, and how a 6m boat would cope in this situation, We were at the fish Traps 50 fathoms. We were advised not to go into the storm, and if possible try and go around it....

Well, we were 18 mile off Surfers, and the storm streached from Kingscliff to Viccy Point. There was no going around this storm like it or not.....
The weather went from a nice 8kn W, to 42kn westerly with pelting rain some lighting and thunder, the chop went from 1.5 ft to an easy 6ft, possible a bit more.. Life jackets were on, and the Epirb was ready for deployment.
I had 2 waves break over my bow and to date I have never shit myself more so then I did this day.. We made it through, came out off it soaking wet and battered...

We were lucky there was bugger all swell and the wind came from the west, because if it came from the east and with a bit off swell behind it, it could off ended a lot worse....

[finding_time]

I guess one man's adverse conditions is anothers man's little lumpy days fishing, it all comes down to what your comfortable with and how much experience you have in a particular sea condition. I know that fishing the local game comps , organizers are very reluctant to cancel a day fishing unless there is a strong wind warning current ( which they have to stop the fishing till it's been canceled) This means that in summer you tend to fish alot of 15-20 knot days, which whilst very uncomfortable are quite fishable trolling at 6-7 knots. The problem is that it doesn't take much for a 20 knot breeze to turn into 30 knots , and as the sky is generally yuk anyway you get little warning it's comming other than report from the changes direction! Now the organizers will cancel once the warning gets issued but you can be away from home when this comes through. I have found that if you take it slowly and dont be silly you'll be suprised at what most boats can dea with!

Ian

Ps. Jabba

It was the one problem i found with the Vermount a few times, they do like to take a wave over the front!!

[FNQCairns]

Regardless the boat will always tell you if the conditions are above it's abilities...it will start to wallow once at this point where forward over ground nose up movement is no longer fully possible you may not make it home in an open boat without overly capable ancillary systems to keep it afloat, experienced skipper or not. My boat is 6m but a tinny and it WILL reach this point long before say a 6m seafarer.....a 4.5m tinny will do it before a 4.5 hainse no matter who the skipper.

So point is if one has never had their boat to near or at this point then they have not been in scary water...YET

cheers fnq

[TJ Bear]

If you or your boat cannot confidently handle a 20 knot breeze and 2m swell I would suggest maybe you shouldn't go to far offshore, near inshore reefs and the like may be a better option. I have done a fare bit of offshore sailing and ocean racing (Sydney - Hobart, Sydney - Lord Howe, Gold Coast - Tokyo etc) and consider 20 knots and 2m swell real nice sailing weather, have raced in far stronger wind and bigger swell at night under a spinaker.

The size of your boat is near to irrelevant as 6.5m minitransat sail boats race accross the Atlantic from France to USA no problem in terrible weather and there is a number of 10m plus boats I would feel unsafe driving around the broadwater. If you are serious about safety at sea and you intend to fish wide say more than a 2 hour run to a safe harbour then you may want to consider doing some study either by yourself or through an institution so you have a good understanding of weather patterns and reading weather charts, you should know which way wind moves around a high and a low preasure system, if highs or lows in your area are weakening or intensifing, be a able to identify clouds such as stratus, sirostratus, sirus, nimbus, cumulonimbus etc and what they mean. You may also want to learn coastal navigation, how to take a bearing, dead reckoning, reading an admrilty chart, Triaglating a bearing for dead reckoning etc. You shouldnt need a GPS to navigate if your a confident and professional seaman, its the reason you still have to learn to use a sextant and sight reduction tables to get your Offshore Yactmasters or be an officer in the Navy (not saying you need a sextant on your boat but any knowledge is a good thing). You could also learn a bit about boat design and basic fourstroke mechanics to help you make good choices in respect to the boat and systems you choose to use on it. In my opinion safety is based in knowledge, experience and good decision making and the only way you can make good decisions is to have the knowledge.

[stinky-stabi]

the stinky stabi is confident but never positive............

[black runner]

Depending on your definition of adverse - probably not. I have a 4.6 metre boat that is stable and has good freeboard and is well setup but you won't find me outside sheltered waters in it. It's not designed to go offshore (light hull design, basic floatation, unsealed deck) and I don't consider I have enough experience yet to skipper offshore in adverse conditions. Experience is the key because conditions that put the crapper up a newby, cause panic and poor decision making may be considered mild/moderate for an experienced skipper who may quite enjoy the conditions. There is also the question of how you respond when you have an engine/equipment failure on the boat during adverse conditions - how to keep the bow into the wind/waves while help arrives etc.

I've been in enough ordinary inshore conditions, and felt capable and confident with myself and the boat. Being out on the big blue with no land in sight is another story. It would be separate system twin everythings - maybe even hulls.

IMO it comes down to capability of both skipper and vessel. Size and type of boat also matters and as FNQ says there are levels of inherent capability in every boat.

Cheers

[GBC]

If you are out in the daytime and get "caught out" by a "sudden weather change", then you have no right to be out there!

Perhaps in your part of the world? Do you fish out in the ocean where you get a clear view back down South?

Fish around Fraser Island enough and you'll watch storms run up it all day long without affecting you, but every now and then one will jump and run for Bundaberg.

I was less than 2 miles off the mouth of Wathumba Ck and got caught once. Complete whiteout - nil vis. It was impossible to make a decent heading at all. As the bow went over each swell, the wind would pick the boat up and slam it down heading 90 degrees away downwind. I had to spin her back into the next swell each time to avoid wearing one over the side. This went on for about a half hour I suppose before I started to make any headway at all. If the bilge pump had failed at any time during that 1/2 hour things would have gotton fairly interesting.

The storm gave less than a couple of minutes warning, and considering it popped over the island which was our refuge, gave us no choice either.

Do I consider I had the "Right" to be there? Bloody oath and I'd make the same call to fish the same area in the same boat every day. The storm was the freak occurence, not us.