Whats wrong with my reel?

[Chamelion]

Hi all,

I've got a Daiwa Exceler 1500 that I use for bait and lure fishing. Lately it has developed some issues. They're not always present, but have been getting worse the last couple of uses.

A) When it's under load there is a rubbing sound. It seems to come from under the spool. If there is no line tension there is no sound.

B) There is a rough feeling, like cogs or bearings arent lining up properly... I'm not sure how to explain it, other than the slower I wind the more noticeable that it is. It's VERY noticeable at times and can make it hard to begin winding again once I've stopped.

It's been decommisioned pending repair, but I'd like to know whether or not there is anything I can do.

Matt.

[TuffTackle]

Hi, this is an exert from our internal training manual.

There is 2 sections which cover both of your problems.

I will post a full spinning reel service manual when I get some time.

Simon

• • The drive gear:

The drive gear in a spinning reel is called hypoid type, this drives the pinion gear around, but this is also a compromised weak design, and useless to transfer torque.
Eg, with a 5:1 Gear ratio, you turn the handle once the rotor turns 5 times.
So to pull 1 kg of load you need to apply 5kg of load at the handle shaft.
Unfortunately this gear design is not really a true gear design, it is actually a slicing action that rotates the pinion gear, so under no load can spin up the rotor with very little effort, and is self accelerating, BUT it has very reduced ability to handle loads, and tends to lock up when resistance is felt against the rotor.
This slicing action also is a fast wearing gear arrangement, unless the materials are designed to slip naturally, like brass alloys or stainless steel alloys, aluminium is the wrong choice from an engineers perspective, because aluminium is the least ideal material for a slicing surface, because of the friction generated under varied loads if run dry.
The advantage of a slicing action is that the gears mesh on both sides not just one side like in most other gear operations
Hypoid gearing is a bit like a worm drive and a bevel gear drive hybrid.
What that means is as it wears you can adjust the gears closer together to effectively
re-condition them to a state like they were when new, by pushing the main gear closer to the pinion gear as it wears.
This is done by shimming the main gear.
To do this correctly you take off the reels handle and put a vernier up to the shaft on the side of the main gear, and setting it to ‘0’ with the gear pushed in hard up to the pinion gear.
Then from the other side push the shaft towards the measured side, and re-measure
This movement is called ‘end play’
The measurement is how much endplay you have to remove, minus a tolerance of 0.005mm
Eg. If you measured 0.5mm then you would need to ad shims of 0.5 – 0.005 = 0.495mm

They need to be smaller in diameter to the outer bearing shell and bigger in internal diameter than the shaft (so they don’t rub)
The 0.005 clearance is to allow enough lubricant to remain in the gears mesh.

But here lies the fundamental floor in all spinning reels.
As the gears are spinning they throw off the grease, and do not collect new grease as they spin, so they will run dry fairly quickly, which is why the gears were worn in the first place, and why Aluminium alloy gears are the fastest wearing, despite any surface treatments to slow down the process, as hard impurities like Antimony, Manganese, etc can’t be added to aluminium alloys because they dissolve at too high a temperature in a furnace.
Which is why you never hear of Aluminium gears in any application that involves metal to metal contact unless it is a chain drive gear or belt driven cam gears.
Fishing spinning reels are the only machine that uses aluminium gears, because they run at such slow speeds, and don’t get used often. The reason it is used is because it is economical to make them with medium accuracy in large volumes.
Brass or stainless steel gears cost about 10 x the price to make compared to aluminium alloy gears.

The best prevention lubricant to use on the main and pinion gear is one that ‘sticks’ or has adhesive additives, this means they will not throw off so easily and will relubricate the gears as they spin, for longer than standard greases, one with PTFE (Teflon) is even better, to reduce wear and enable faster slipping, a well as a tackifier to aid in sticking to the gears on rotation.

For the oscillation gears, the same grease will work, but it will make the reel harder to spin up, so a normal grade of grease will suit here.

The oscillation shaft works under varying high side loads when operating, so a high pressure grease is best for this.

The one way bearing should have NO grease , but only a light oil, such as lanolin, that sticks is light but won’t run off easily.
The spool to shaft fit should be heavily lubricated especially if they do not have bearings, a non static grease that does not attract dust, and is impervious to salt is best.

The Line level bearing works the hardest of all the bearings in a reel, and is also the smallest, but thank fully easy to access.
This should be kept clean and continuously lubricated with light lanolin oil, and the bearing should be replaced at first sign of noise or wear.

[PennCasta]

I had the same sound on my exeler2500,check the line roller isnt rubbing where it mounts on the bail arm.Will have to undo the phillips head screw and remove roller you may see that it will be all scuffed up.I put a small washer(very thin washer) between the bearing and the bail arm never heard the noise again.

[griz066]

Its not Shimano

[TuffTackle]

Its not Shimano

Yeah if it was, he'd have smoke coming off the drag as well

[Lovey80]

Yeh mate the bail/line roller is stuffed. I had to replace it on my year old 2500 Diawa.........sh!t forgot the name of it - the gold one.

Cheers

Chris

[Chamelion]

hrrmf, I've only had it a few months.

[nuggstar]

i can have a looky at it for ya matt. pm me