Manual Over-ride brakes on tandem axel - 1 set of wheels or both sets?

[Spaniard_King]

As a matter of interest...I was up at 1770 the week before last and saw a monster trailer in the car park...tripple axle, landcruser wheels.....Cable brakes on 6 wheels . How can that possibly be compliant.

cheers

OB it certainly couldn't be legal.

Heath you would have to be pushing 2T I would be keeping the system you have and keep it functioning well.

wouldn't cost too much for a full refurb of your system ie

disc machined $80 (all 4)

Pads $60

New cables and pulleys (approx $50)

and some labor

[SunnyCoastMark]

Oh on the subject of the cable arrangement......most of the time cable brakes are used because they are cheap......as a result......often the cable set ups are less than ideal........you realy need to have arrangements in place that provede equal tension on all brake levers and means to properly adjust the slack in the cables.

Additionaly the terminations of the cables should be secure, Almost all of the cable brake systems I have seen ( I look at trailers at boat ramps and wonder)are fitted using wire rope clamps and often only a single clamp at each termination.....wire rope clamps are well known for slipping, in industrial rigging the minimum number of clamps on a termination is 3.

Quite often the cable used is mild steel and not very flexible ( clothes line wire I suspect). This stiff cable does not run freely thru any equalising devices used ( if any)


As a matter of interest...I was up at 1770 the week before last and saw a monster trailer in the car park...tripple axle, landcruser wheels.....Cable brakes on 6 wheels . How can that possibly be compliant.

cheers

Hey Oold Boot,
Yes, price is always a factor - you could apply the same logic to falcon v BMW or quintrex v Fisher. However in Trailers - it is not the only factor.

The company that I work as a manager for - apart from producing 6000 trailers per year - we also own most of the hire trailers around Australia eg U-haul; We Hire; Hire me; etc. etc. All of our tandem hire trailers are 2000kg GVM and the all have mechanical override brakes - (mostly Disc).

The fact is - for the price - Cable operated over ride breaks - if adjusted properly are an effecient low maintenance braking system.

We have 5000 odd trailers in hire Australia wide, so of course maintenance is always an issue and there is nothing easier to maintain than disc brakes. A quick glance will tell you how the pads are, if the adjustment is correct and if all cable terminations are still secure. (incidentally we use two clamps at each end and I can't recall a single instance of a cable letting go)


We have used different braking systems in the past - hydraulics are a pain in the proverbial. Electric is fine for customers trailers, but far too costly for hire and useless in boat trailers unless you are talking elec/hydraulic.


As always - especially with boat trailers - it comes down to regular preventative maintenance. Every 12 months you should replace:- bearings; brake cables; fittings; etc.

Tectly, fisholene, lanolin should be applied almost after every trip out.

Brakes should be stripped, cleaned and lubricated regularly; couplings greased etc. etc.

Problem is people don't do the above and then they complain to all and sundry when stuff fails.

Maintenance is always the key.

Mark

[Chimo]

Agreed Mark.

I still love my cable / disc brakes. After 9 yrs the fish oiled cable was like new.

So few issues cf to the elect over hydraulic I have now and did the job fine.

Cheers
Chimo

[finga]

As a matter of interest...I was up at 1770 the week before last and saw a monster trailer in the car park...tripple axle, landcruser wheels.....Cable brakes on 6 wheels . How can that possibly be compliant.

cheers

OB it certainly couldn't be legal.

Why not??
Brake wise...as long as it had brakes on all wheels if it carried over 2000kg...it should not be a problem should it?

[PADDLES]

g'day finga, i think that in qld, if the weight is over 2t the brake system must automatically come on if the trailer becomes disconnected from the tow vehicle, hence the costly sensa-brake style systems.

[SunnyCoastMark]

g'day finga, i think that in qld, if the weight is over 2t the brake system must automatically come on if the trailer becomes disconnected from the tow vehicle, hence the costly sensa-brake style systems.

Correct.

The tri axle would be OK if it was only registered to 2000kg. Sometimes if people just want a farm trailer or only have a short distance to go - they will have a trailer up - spec'd to carry 3 or 4 ton but only do the rego to 2000kg less hassles for them - unless they are caught on the road by Transport cops. Or have an accident - but hey the customer wants what the customer wants.

You'll probably also find that that tri axle was home built.

mark

[oldboot]

Correct.

The tri axle would be OK if it was only registered to 2000kg. Sometimes if people just want a farm trailer or only have a short distance to go - they will have a trailer up - spec'd to carry 3 or 4 ton but only do the rego to 2000kg less hassles for them - unless they are caught on the road by Transport cops. Or have an accident - but hey the customer wants what the customer wants.

You'll probably also find that that tri axle was home built.

mark

Remember this is a pretty large boat trailer, no one is going to put an extra axle under a boat trailer they do not need, AND you could easily achieve a 3tonne rating on two axles with cruser hubs.
Even with falcon bearings and derating for the larger wheels 2 axles gets you over the 2 tonnes.

Yep you need a breakaway system for any trailer over 2 tonnes nationwide and correct me if I am wrong....operation of the trailer breaking system from the cab

home built or not, compliant is compliant.

Yep mark.... the considerations of a volume trailer manufacture and rental operation are very different to a trailer you own and care about, and carries your pride and joy.

The things you may put up with from a trailer you hire once are very different from the expectations from a trailer you use regularly and may tow considerable distances.

cheers

[SunnyCoastMark]

Remember this is a pretty large boat trailer, no one is going to put an extra axle under a boat trailer they do not need, AND you could easily achieve a 3tonne rating on two axles with cruser hubs.Absolutely, in fact we often build 3 - 4 ton trailers, but sometimes people have a mate who has a tri axle trailer or whatever and they think to themselves - "hey - I will build mine like that" - without really understanding the why's and wherefores - they just know they want it.
Even with falcon bearings and derating for the larger wheels 2 axles gets you over the 2 tonnes.

Yep you need a breakaway system for any trailer over 2 tonnes nationwide and correct me if I am wrong....operation of the trailer breaking system from the cab
Correct

home built or not, compliant is compliant. Unfortunately people often do not want to have to pay an extra $1000 - $2000 (sometimes more) to make their trailer compliant. I could write a book with all the accumulated reasons, excuses and justifications that customers use. All we can do is advise them and legally register the trailer as it complies with the Act. - What they do with the trailer is up to them.

Yep mark.... the considerations of a volume trailer manufacture and rental operation are very different to a trailer you own and care about, and carries your pride and joy.

The things you may put up with from a trailer you hire once are very different from the expectations from a trailer you use regularly and may tow considerable distances. Agreed, but as you say - "compliant is compliant "- Hire trailer or otherwise and believe me when I say that Hire trailers cop an absolute flogging - we have seen it all. The positives in that is that we soon learned what a trailer will and won't take. - The rigours of hire allowed us to fine tune our trailer designs for retail and wholesale trailers as well. - Experience is a great teacher.



Mark

cheers

ORIGIN - IT'S NOT ABOUT NSW - IT'S ABOUT QUEENSLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr__Bean]

A hint for anyone looking to get the best out of their cable operated disc brakes, and an essential item if you are going to run multi-axle ones.

When the brake is applied to cable brakes a lot of the brake travel is lost to the initial tightening of the cable, up to half of the braking effort can be lost to actually getting the cable(s) tight in the first place. Sure this can be adjusted right up so that the pads drag but if you want them to release properly then in a normal installation this can be a substantial loss.

The answer is to take the time to fit cable thimbles to each and every point that the cable ends.

See picture below



The stainless thimbles are available at whitworths for about 2 bucks each and you just have to pry them open to get them through the hole in the caliper arm and them squeeze them closed again with multi-grips before running the cable through.

Yes they do fit in the hole, although I did have to run a drill through one of mine to remove a forging burr first.

Whilst it may only be a little thing in the installation it makes a big difference to how quickly the brake cable first comes tight, especially when you have multiple terminations on balanced dual axle setups.

- Darren

[Chimo]

Good point Darren and can I add one more.

Although it shouldn't be necessary in many cases, even on brand new discs, there is a need to have the disc rotors machined in order to be able to adjust the brakes to optimize their operation.

My experience was that it was impossible to adjust the brakes for optimum operation without machining.

When I initially adjusted the brakes the pads heated the discs and bearings etc by rubbing on the high spots. After machining things worked well and no more over heat issues in a set up with very little time lag before the brakes operated.

As with all things, this is just a case of attention to the details to allow one to live a life free of unprogrammed excitement! ( like not being able to pull up when you need to)

Cheers
Chimo

[oldboot]

I think the last two posts reinforces my preception that so many of the cable brake systems are just slapped together and do not work to a level that the components will allow.

I had not thaught about the slack produced in each and every eye termination.

Think also about the friction and cable stiffness that can impare operation at each and every bend and junction.

If quality materials, work methods and regular maintenance are used these systems would have to work better.

Rather than just string it all up with a bit of wire from the hardware a couple of wire rope grips and a cheap turnbuckle.
How about shackles, thimbles, swaged eyes, proper pullies or equalisers, decent turnbuckles and some nice flexible stanless wire....it would have to work better.

cheers