Does el-cheapo do the job..?

[Morston]

It probably is.

I run Sage rods. Am i a sucker for buying them? -probably. Do i care? -nup.

As i mentioned earlier i appreciate it for more than just it’s casting ability.

I like the warranty. I like the rod tubes that come with them i like the build quality and yes i even like the brand.

Totally agree with you.

I am as much a 'tackle tart' as the next man. I own about 50 rods of various kinds and I like handling them....some are hardly used....many I made myself.

My fly rods I have had for years and know them inside out.......when I started over 30 years ago there was a lot less choice.

I don't know about here but in the UK you would be hard pressed to find a bad fly rod nowadays....or any bad rod for that matter.

The cheapo stuff you find in the shops here just would not sell over there.

When I say cheap I mean value for money....not always the same thing.

Cahal

[finding_time]

It probably is.

.

Next time i'm 15 foot above the river on a bluff less than 12 inches wide casting to a trout the size of a salmon, into a genuine 15+knot nor-westor..... I don’t think i will care whether i could have bought a cheaper rod than the one in my hand.



Jim

Then you slip and your hand goes out to break the fall , unfortunately it's the hand holding the Sage And it breaks Now your left holding the two pieces thinking to yourself what a clever bastard you are for buying the Sage, loomis, etc .. There are other reasons for buying great gear My brother is a very keen trout fisherman ( is building a lodge in NZ and will be guiding full time) It doesn't matter how good your felt boots are river rocks are very slipery and he has broken his 4 weight sage 4 times , love that expediter!!!!!

[Morston]

I totally agree!!!! And you will notice that in my mock artical that the cheap reel caught the fish! But when your on a fish it's amazing what goes through you mind, how are the crimps on the lure, the leader was alittle scrubed, i hope i did that aussie plait tight enough! The last thing you want on your mind is more doubts! And of course manufactors of well know products that have earned respect in a industry will play on that against new players! It's up to the new players in the market to prove there stuff is good and will be up to the task!

I run Alutecnos reels and when i was looking at new reels i hadn't heard of them but after a bit of research and seeing one pulled apart ( I think you should see a reel in pieces , specially if your buying 5 at once ) i dont think there is a finer game reel being made anywhere in the world!!! The Italians can engineer I have never seen on of ##########s reels i'm sure i will one day and they'll probably be pretty good but it will take time to earn respect!

ian

Anglers are usually let down by their own mistakes much more than by their tackle.

It is very difficult for 'new' tackle companies to break into any market.

Fishermen are quite conservative by nature which is why most of us have 'favourite' brands athough others may find our choice illogical.

On to another point.....much of the Cheapo tackle I have seen on sale here simple would not sell in the UK or the US. 'Cheap' tackle in the US or UK is a much higher quality than the cheap tackle here.
They are different markets though.

Cahal

[finding_time]

Anglers are usually let down by their own mistakes much more than by their tackle.

Cahal

It much easier to live with your own mistakes than do everything right and have the gear brought let you down , that really hurts and is maybe your biggest mistake!

As far as new tackle breaking into the market goes, fishermen are pretty smart and thanks to resorces like the net good news spreads quickly! If the product is up to the task , word will get out !!! Conversely if it's crap word will also get out!

[Morston]

It much easier to live with your own mistakes than do everything right and have the gear brought let you down , that really hurts and is maybe you biggest mistake!

as far as new tackle breaking into the market goes, fishermen are pretty smart and thanks to resorces like the net good news spreads quickly! If the product is up to the task , word will get out !!! Conversely if it's crap word will also get out!

true

The internet has made life much easier for those who choose to use it wisely.

[oldboot]

On the subject of castings or mouldings failing when screws are inserted.

If the female thread is blind (has a bottom) and we are talknig about a fine thread.....applying a lubricant may cause a hydraulic failure... where the lubricant causes the thread to seal and occupy the space at the bottom of the threaded hole

So as the screw is tightened the liquid at the bottom of the hole is preasurised with no where to go.. so the casting fractures.

This is a real consideration even in large bolts such as head studs on engines.....either the hole is drilled thru or space is left at the bottom.

It is common in some mechanical assembly to tighten bolts to a particular level then re torque to a final level to account for compresion in the bottom of blind holes.

cheers

[PNG1M]

A mate of mine bought some of that cheap "saratoga" stuff from Ebay a while back - a couple of baitcast rods of different sizes & a reel.

He took it on one of our barra/bass trips in PNG to test it out.

He persevered over the weekend by having the Ebay gear in the boat as a second set with the 'standby' lure attached. His number one set-up was a Loomis matched to a TE Calcutta 400.

Every time he picked up the el-cheapo he couldn't wait to put it back down again. The difference in feel & performance when compared to the top end stuff was off the chalk & cheese scale.

I'm not sure if he actually landed fish with the sartoga set-up but from memory he did get a few. It's the psychology that sets in too, that makes a difference to enjoying (or not) that memorable moment.

You get a solid fish on and you know you're trying to haul it in with tacky (unproven) tackle and you start thinking about why bought the cheap stuff in the first place rather tha focusing on the present & savouring the fact that you've hooked a good fish to land.

Using the top shelf gear (or at least half decent quality) you can enjoy the fishing and feel psychologically comfortable by knowing your gear is sound.

Anyway, my mate's summary was that even though the Ebay stuff was el-cheapo it did work and it did catch fish. But it wasn't very enjoyable to use.

After that trip he put the cheapie stuff in the back room & that's where it stayed. He said it was just an experiment anyhow. Then he got online and ordered another Loomis from a tackle shop in Cairns. They offered him a good deal so I bought one too.

For barra & bass we generally opt for the best equipment we can afford (or more accurately - can't afford - but do somehow..!) Top end stuff is preferred for fishing in png as the conditions & fish can be tough going. The good gear is generally longer lasting & consistently reliable as long as you look after it.

But then, on another trip a 'one-off' weekend angler I know bought himself a 2-piece general purpose 7' rod & reel combo (egg-beater) from K-mart as he didn't want to spend a fortune on a single trip.

He had great fun and caught a steady flow of fish (bass & barra to 8kg). He enjoyed using his new gear and kept reminding us of how much it cost him and where he bought it from. He was in his element..!

In return we desperately tried to outperform him with our top dollar gear - which we did - but possibly too because we had more experience than him with that kind of fishing & knew the area. Who knows?

So...each to their own I guess!!

[oldboot]

In all seriousness the bloke who buys a $1000 plus outfit is not likly to want to use an ebay special regardless.
by the same token the bloke who spends under $200 on a "seriuos outfit" is never likly to have the money to buy a loomis and an up market shimano reel.

Even more he is unlikly to spend the $3000 to $7500 on a single fishing trip. that will require heavy tackle catching meter pluss anything.

A more realistic comparison is in the lighter tackle. say a typical 10Lb outfit.

you could buy a cheap packaged outfit for $50 and find everything about it was cheap and in truth poor value for money.

or you could be a vulture and spend $150 on a decent basic brand name rod and reel and still have plenty of cash left over for a reel of respectable mono line and a bit of terminal tackle.....particularly if there are deals to be had... and that will fish quite nicely

or you could spend $450 on a current model midrange rod and reel and a roll of braid and a few bits......will it catch more fish than #2 ?

or if you are a rich Ba$#&1d, you can cough up the $500 odd for a loomis or whatever and an other $500 for a fancy reel to match, then another $100 for some top shelf braid, $30 for fancy leader, then there are the lures only the best current brand names at $25 plus each and you have to have the full range of types, sizes and colours, so another $1000 ( thats only 40 lures). We have yet to buy a tackle box or any designer clothing yet... no doubt this outfit will feel wonderfull and you will look great.......
But hell that would buy me nice used boat with a low milage outboard


The big secret I think is buying wisely and never pay full retail.....in this fishing lark just about everything gets reduced sometime.

There has to be huge margins in some sections of fishing tackle for the sellers to withstand the very solid reductions that are often seen.......weather the small reatilers ever seen these margins is doubtfull, but the bigger ones seem to get them from the wholesalers.

cheers

[straddie]

So what you guys are saying is if I am targeting marlin, black bass, xos sambos or dog tooth tuna, then my $10 kmart whiting rod and 5 inch alvey just won't be up to the task?

How about when I am targeting winter whiting what type of loomis and $1000 reel would you recommend I use to tame these mighty beasts

It is a bit hard to tell with some which of the posts were serious and which were outright jokes but I laughed at most of them anyways in this thread.

[oldboot]

I cant tell you the appropriate loomis rod but a Shimano twinpower 2500FC would cost you arround $500 if you were copping full retail.......a truly beautifull reel... just silky........Would I buy one..........NBW.

It most certainly would be no difficulty spending $1500 on a whiting outfit.

I'll stick with my small alvies......the old series with the bakerlite spools .
I just pucked up anotherone....a 45C1... cost me $25 inc postage....paid a little too much and it needs a little work........give me 2 hours with it and it will be sweeet .

cheers

[spears]

OK so we have this dilemma of cheap won’t cut it.

The $900 - $1200 reels are just too over priced for a lot of people.
Why not go in between on say a 4000 or 4500 size reel in a stella FD $600 with quality braid and make it an all rounder for medium to heavy fishing.
Then you will have a smooth strong reel and reliable.
This will vary for some regions around aust.
Just a thought..

Next idea…
You can always buy a good quality reel second hand and stay within a certain budget

[4x4frog]

Replied, top shelf is the only way to go.
Last year I bought 2 el-cheapo reels of flea-bay from an aussie supplier. They are rubbish to put it mildly. I had in the past always bought the best gear, having a Zebco Quantum Spin reel and Iron baitcaster. I thought this time I would go cheap as the kids won't fish too often. Big mistake, they hated the reels and almost refuse to go out again with those reels. I'll probably get a couple of quality s/h Shimano or Diawas for them and be done at that but I'd never again be tempeted by cheap gear.

[dogsbody]

Does el-cheapo do the job..? IMO it can at certain times. Eg when i went to the Swains last year i needed a heavy rod for 50lb braid so i bought a 20 dollar rod off fee bay. My reasons are that I do bugger all outside fishing so I saw no need to spend the $$ on a good rod. The rod survived and did the job asked of it.

Of course there are times that you will need better gear like if your doing the Marlin thing that's a no brainer. For the average fisher all they need is fair priced gear $150-$200(rod and reel) should last a good while if looked after. I've got a baitcaster (Crestfire reel Cantana rod) cost $80 about 15years ago and still going today.

If you want to go all out that's fine i can understand the feeling of owning something nice as it's all about enjoying the feeling of fishing,, not just catching fish that's the iceing on the cake.

I feel there is no need for all the chest beating about what's better. You buy what you want and stand by your decision good or bad and it don't matter a toss what other people think.


Dave

[GrahameA]

but generally, is it better to buy 'cheap' or not?

An opinion.

What is cheap??

I have a range of fishing gear and in the reel area they range from those that were low priced to those that were relatively expensive.

Of all the reels I own there are a few that stand out.

ABU 6500C - 1974
ABU 7000 - 1975
DAM 600 - 1980 (or thereabouts)

All of the above reels are still in use and have a lot of hours of use. All have had the bearings (bushes) in them replaced - the old ones wore out - and the 6500 is on its third set. All have had the drag washers replaced with ones of oil soaked split chrome leather. Like all my fishing gear they have all been maintained on a regular basis.

So they have been a 30 plus year investment and have definitely been worth the money initially invested in them. However, if they had not been maintained they would now be in a garbage tin.

However, it is my opinion that they were better made than the current equivalents.

At the other end of the price range I have a little Okuma that I purchased when they first came out. It is only used on 2kg line and it is going as good as the day it was purchased - it has had the drag washers replaced though, they were replaced even before it was first used.

My opinion:

- buy the gear you want or can afford and maintain it. Corrosion is the big killer.
- research your product well
- do not believe the hype put out by the manufacturers - any of them.
- maintain your gear
- wash your reels after every fishing trip
- if people are paying the prices being asked for some of the top range reels then they have more money than sense.

[4x4frog]

Graeme, you make good points in your closing arguement. I think I would change my vote to buy the best as i agree with your points and I didn't spend top dollar for some of my gear but all but the last reels mentioned have been higher end stuff. The Zebcoa nd Iron were pretty top end when bought 20 years ago and I doubt the cheap stuff offered these days will alst anywhere near that long, even if maintained well. Time will tell though and if in 15 years time we are still around posting on ausfish, it'sd be interesting to revisit this thread and see the results then.