what method do the Pros in your area use to catch their Snapper? there is no Fish Traps used as I understand, Snapper are not all that targetable by a Net, so how do they catch them, by line? if so, then don't see too much difference from a rec Fisherperson, except they get paid for it!
As for the science of recreational catches in QLD.
Absolutly everything that the QLD government quotes and works from is bassed on a telephone market survey of 22000 ( 0.5 % of the population) taken " at random". this market survey is done every couple of years......the DPI and EPA claim this as science.......it is a market survey and it is done by a market survey company.
from this market survey the DPI claim 735 000 active anglers in QLD.
They do not seem to clarify that situation as to what sort of fishing thay do and how frequently...... and more importantly how much they catch....( they don't know)
They use this figure and or the figure on boat registrations as they seem to see fit.......there does not seem to be any information oncerning how may baots are actulay used with any regularity or how many and how frequently they are used for fishing.
to press the point.... by brotheri-nlaw's boat hadn't turned its prop for 3 years till recently...... a mate has a 16 foot alloy that has been out twice in the last 12 months............ another mate has a $60 000 boat that he has owned for nearly 5 years..... he has had it out less than 12 times... and he doesn't fish.
from the market survey they get 4500 who are willing to fill out fishing log books.
they also do some very patchy boat ramp surveys.
The sum total of all they know and claim about recreational fishing derives the above information.
They admit they have done no direct population survey on snapper of any discription in recent years.....( heard direct from the mouth of a DPI fisheries manager with plenty of witnesses)
cheers
cheers
OK then so we don't agree with their method, but what have we got to reply with?? bugger all, just some emotive retort that "I fish and I reckon this is wrong because. . . . " it does not stack up one bit does it? they have evidence, be it ever so airy fairy, they have it! now, how do the Pros catch their Snapper?? I still don't know yet!
Commercilay snapper are net fished, trawl fished and line caught.
cheers
I must add here, that at my Local Ramp for about a year now, there has been a bunch of guys (volunteers) who talk to every Boat, measure and record their catch, and ask some "survey" type of questions, how this will be used in the future is anyones guess, but it will be evidence to support "something" that's for sure, could you guys organise the same thing to work for you?
net fished how? not too many would be Trawled as a target species, I would be thinking line fished almost entirely as a target species. Maybe Samson could jump in here!
Ahh you see because they call snapper a "reef fish" there is an asumption that they are all hanging arround big gnarly lumps of stuff... and sure enough many of them do hang arround... "untrawlable areas".
But there are areas up here where there is a rocky structure right next to a drop off with a clear bottom.
or
the so called reef is nothing more than a rise in the bottom with some gravel and stuff on top.
So if a commercial fisho is carefull and accurate and knows his craft he can use his nets.
then there is the kept buycatch when trawling or netting for other spicies.
The DPI has reasonably accurate figures on kept commercial catch.
they don't much seem to be interested in discussing discarded bycatch.
It has bee said that there has and still is a significant undersized bycatch issue with netting and trawiling for other spicies... with a very low survival rate.
A far as evidence is concerned.
we as recreational fisho's have little or no ability to gather " evidence" and the DPI know it.
But if they are going to put in place very unpopular, heavy handed fish conservation measures......I feel they should be obliged to produce evidence that is more solid than a market survey.
cheers
There is no net or trap fishery in QLD for snapper it is line only the only guys that take snapper by net are in moreton bay and their is i think one i know of that only occasionally gets a small amout. The offshore trawler guy's aren't licenced to catch snapper by net or line for that matter unless they have an L1 licence and most trawler guys just lost theirs or never owned one ever they get some as bycatch which from fisheries observers say is about 30 snapper a night that get thrown back and all these are juvinial fish under legal size.
As far as saying pro's are responsible for the shape of the fishery that's a load of shit, most trips pro's get under a rec limit just cover costs and make very little and now their is maybe 170 pro's allowed to catch snapper left and the majority catch under one tonne each a year i know of at least half that amount of rec's that get close to a tonne a year and alot are on ausfish i'd hate to think how many rec's there are filling the rafters with fish illegally but i bet its alot.
A closure of course is going to be good for fish stocks but if put at the wrong time of year might stuff the whole snapper season up as the currents and conditions only let them get targeted for minimal months.
As far as pro's log book returns go if it wasn't for them there would be no hard evidence of anything and i know in NSW the pro's have to pay a big amount every year towards fisheries research that gets used against us, i don't see too many rec's dipping into their pockets for research.
Cheers samson
No way are pro's that line fish responsible for any shortfall in maniacally defined fisherys stocks. Sadly we talk as if the state of our fishery is fish related, it's not it's political nothing more.Originally Posted by samson
We cannot it's a bit like a family flying a kite on sunday being expected to prop up the bureau of meteorology with money over and above personal tax's, leave that to those that make a profit from that particular natural resource.
In general,
I found a Quote that sort of works in todays environmental arena for certain, didn't work 12 years ago.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t**d (stool) by the clean end"
I thought straight away of the QLD labour party!and who really empowers them to continue the propoganda.
cheers fnq
Why if there is no net caught snapper in QLD, does the discussion paper and respone form raise making snapper a "line caught fishery only".
And why at the public meetings was net caught/ trawl caught snapper discussed.
Also from what I understand those not specificlay licenced for snapper (or any other fish for that matter) are permitted to take a specific small amount of non target spicies.
I do agree that from what I know ther is no trap fishery in QLD as practiced in NSW for any spicies.
cheers
Oldboot their is supposed to be two guys from what fisheries have said that net snapper minimally one got a contract for the lake near the port authority and the other catches barely anything just bycatch but is licenced to take them both are in moreton bay.
The reason why net caught bycatch was discussed i don't know there is little that can be done other than to close down those operaters which trawl moreton bay and most likely thats going to happen in moreton bybacks as the offshore guys don't get stuff all snapper as the bigger fish out run the nets. The three meetings i went to fisheries weren't interested in bycatch from trawlers though from the looks of the moreton closures they will slowly decrease.
Those in the dropline and longline fishery cannot take snapper and those in the trawl fishery in QLD can't take any fish, although people with line fishing licences that catch fish they aren't licenced to sell can take a rec limit for eating purposes only.
Cheers samson
I would be thinking that it is mentioned to eliminate any by catch Snapper from being kept in any way shape or form, even in NSW, there is bugger all net or Trawled Snapper, it is all line and trap caught, end of story, don't know about any fine print that may allow a small percentage of by catch to be sold, that seems like a bit of a half ar$ed system to me (if it is true) I know in NSW there is quota for certain species, like Gemfish and so on, the rest as far as Trawling is concerned is almost open slather (Snapper would be a very minor portion of total catch) Traps are restricted by License numbers and so on, but lets get back to the original questions! it seems all fine and dandy for Rec fishers to use cast nets, which also account for some habitat destruction and by catch, sure only a small amount, but take into account how many there is in use, and the catch must be astronomical taken on a state wide basis! we all want netters buzzed off, but isn't a cast net still a NET? should we ban them as well? and crab traps are traps, ban them as well? how many Dillies and traps must be in use over all of QLD?
so if the commercial sector is catching diddle squat snapper, and there is no direct population survey and all recreational fugures on snapper are derived from the market survey...............how do they come up with anything meaningfull.
But that has been the question all along...... who said there was a snapper problem in the first place?
As for cast nets............a cast net is so much smaller than a commecial net AND you can only use them on a smooth bottom.
Cast nets causing habitat distruction...... I don't think so.
If you throw a cast net over a rocky bottom or where there are snags.... the net will be so full of holes to be useless.
If you throw it over anywhere it may do damage, you will spend the next half an hour cleaning the thing out.
as for bycatch........... how much bycatch can you get in a 4 metre circle.........compare that to commercial activities that count bycatch by the tonne.
then with a cast net you have to clear it for every throw and all the by catch has to be immediately returned.
cast net are only of any use at all in shallow water past about 3 metres thay are pointless.
Most people who use cast nets take small amounts of fish so as to be insignificant.
there are some ( the yellow raincoat brigade) who abuse cast nets and all sorts of other aparatus...... but that is irrelivant as they also ignore size and bag limits too.............that is not an aparatus issue it is an enforcement issue.
noel you realy are starting to talk rubbish.
cheers
I know you southerners cant use cast nets and other things but your snapper minimum size has be sooo much smaller than ours.
no not talking rubbish at all, I am just making a stand "on the other side" remember way way back I stated that I was on the rec fishos side? it just seems to me that WE and I mean WE want it all our way, stop anything we don't like, but don't even think about putting bans on us, that's my point, I fully agree and understand your plight, been down that road myself down here, we have had more closures are "green" bans/zones than you can poke a stick at, from Grey Nurse skull duggery to total bans in all sorts of popular spots, I just want to point out how ill prepared we are all in any sort of structured long term Political plan that's all, do not take any offense at anything I have stated, it is just my view as if from the other/green side!
i think you guys should listen to what Noelm is saying. Think of him acting as a defence lawyer for the g'ment. He he merely pointing out all the possible holes that the g'ment might exploit against the rec fisher who wants to take action about all the green zones coming in.
If you don't have all (and i stress ALL) the facts, then the g'ment (and lets be honest they are very good at this) will just walk all over you with facts on hand. I dare say 60% of the g'ment is made up of people with a Law background. They aren't dumb s&&ts we make them out to be.
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