Snapper stocks in SEQ

[dayoo]

This thread is for the general information of all members of Ausfish and particularly those fishos attending the public meetings this week on the RRFF.

The following is a accurate quote from a report by one of the DPI scientists who is advising Fisheries on the state of the snapper stocks in Queensland.

Juvenile snapper (Pagrus auratus) 5 - 20cm fork length were an abundant incidental bycatch in Moreton Bay prawn trawls.

Discard mortality of these juveniles was high (over 85%). Under a worst case scenario models predicted that incidental capture of juvenile snapper in prawn trawls from southern Moreton Bay alone could be responsible for the loss of a greater tonnage of snapper than is taken by the total Queensland commercial line fishery.

The best case scenario gave a figure of 30 tonnes and the worst case scenario indicated a figure of 100tonnes.

Cheers
Barry

[Lucky_Phill]

This was discussed at length at the RRFF meeting at Southport tonight.

Barry Pollock brought it up Twice. Considering this was not taken into account in the stock assessment or the proposal and options submitted by the DPI&F, it does have a prawny smell to it.

Phill

[Jackinthebox]

Well, that was another interesting meeting last night at Southport.

I was there with Raf, Doug & Paul Burt & a few other local recs and Barry Pollock & his wife were there also. A handfull of line fishing pros were there also.

Raf & Doug only found out about this a day or two ago and Paul Burt asked for another meeting to be held on the Coast again so we could get more rec fishos there as the amount of notice given for these meetings was minimal.

Stock assessments, estimates, projections, etc ....... they are all just scientific guesses being made as to the real state of the fishery and the management options being brought up are definitely going to suck. The two options that will provide the least pain to rec fishos(increasing size limits and decreasing bag limit) were given a big red cross by the boffins and the options that will really hurt us were given a big green tick such as ......

(1) Seasonal closure to ALL BOTTOM FISHING for either 3 months every year for 10 years or 4 months every year for 5 years with a review after 3 years to see if TOUGHER? closures are needed!!!!

(2) Area Closures - here we go again, more bloody green zones!!! Now the DPI is jumping in on the act, like the EPA is not giving us enough headaches over this one already - just wait until the Fed govt jumps on the bandwagon with their offshore green zones!!!!

In addition, gear restrictions and education programmes such as release weights and venting procedures were mentioned as being part of the solution which is sensible at least.
The boys from Doug Burt's said that they would include these techniques in their monthly seminars to help out.

A catch monitoring system was discussed but there are plenty of difficulties with this option and i feel it is just a smokescreen for what they really want which is CLOSURES, CLOSURES AND MORE CLOSURES! I asked why is it that as soon as better management of the fishery is required, all government departments go straight to the "lock it up" option and bugger the people involved.

Barry Pollock did hammer the Trawl bycatch issue which they seem to be sick of hearing judging by their reaction (I would have said it if he didn't) and this issue was quite obviously uncomfortable for the Dept and swept aside rather quickly.

Raf brought up a different version of the Artificial reef option and that is, instead of closing off areas that we fish, why not take some barren areas and set up the arti reefs which are closed to all types of fishing and these can be the closed sanctuary zones for the fish to increase stocks in as we will never miss it if we never had it. The DPI reps gave all the assurances that they would be interested in this option to which Raf replied that why were we knocked on the head for many years when we had contractors and groups with the material and resources to get this going at bugger all cost to the government. They appear willing to listen to this but it needs to be hammered again at the next meeting.

I am all for upping the minimum size as opposed to Area and 3-4 month closures. This can only be a good thing with many more fish being able to spawn many times and at least we will still be able to fish for snapper in the best months of the year. Strangely enough, this won't affect the pros that much as the data indicates they catch much bigger fish overall due to their more targeted knowledge.


A point I raised with the DPI manager, along with some of the other guys is that the fish are getting smarter. Just because charter catches are down, doesn't mean the fish aren't there. I mean what would you do if you were having lunch in the park and suddenly a big noisy thing in the air started bombing your area with a dozen bricks on ropes with a scungy old sandwich attached? You'd head for the hills wouldn't you? Charter skippers in our area these days are mostly blow ins from other regions or ex longline deckies who haven't got a lifetime of experience fishing here off the Gold coast like our charter skippers of the past.

Guys, we need more people at the Inala meeting. It was a passionate debate with many good points raised by our small group to which there wasn't many decent answers forthcoming from DPI. We need to keep the pressure on. An angry crowd of Rec fishos raising the same points will have to make more of an impact than a handfull of us.

Cheers,
Mick.

Keep hammering on the trawl bycatch issue, if they want seasonal closures, why can't we have shorter periods like up north and not 3 - 4 month blocks on all bottom fishing.

[blue_mako]

Would be convenient if the closed seasons were for the whole summer period when we have better fish to catch like marlin and sea conditions are less favourable for bottom fishing!

If it is during the winter time when sea conditions are more favourable to catch a feed it will be a disaster for the entire rec fishing industry.

The trawler bycatch issue has been well known for a while, have they got there head up there arse ?

[samson]

Mick i think i saw you there the with the burties putting your veiw across, as far as closures go thats seems what they want but as long as we can push them towards the summer months for bottom fishing only when the currents are running like raffy mentioned that should have less impact on both sectors because most will be chasing pelagics anyway.

As far as the pro's situation thats where i come in i'm against any symbol based fishery with prior reporting its a nightmare, i could qualify which would probably increase the value of my L1 from $15000 to $50000 but i'm not interested in a golden handshake i want whats safe and fair for the fishery, but as you might have noticed there was a big guy in the crowd who is motivated for a quota fishery because he owns a lot of L1's and will be an instant millionare if it goes through and he doesn't even work any of these licences but will get a strangle hold on the fishery if it goes ahead, he will be at every meeting and he will push whats good for him not the fishery and fisheries need to be made aware of his agender.

Cheers samson

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sure if i estimated land tax to the govt with a massive swing like this bycatch there would be hell raising going on.

[Jackinthebox]

Yeah Samson, I saw him there. Doesn't look like he's done much hard yakka lately.

Mick.

[oldboot]

I thnk this raises a significant issue.....licence speculation.

I may step on some toes here but.. so be it.

It is my view that if a finsing licence is not used to at least some portion of its capacity it should be withdrawn without compensation.

Afterall you can not hold a cab licence and not have it opperating a working cab.
You cant even hold a cab drivers licence without being on the books of a cab or limo company.

Ghost licences do nothing for the seafood supply situation and certainly do nothing for the enviroment.

cheers

[dayoo]

Well now you guys have had a taste of what Bill Corten and I have had to endure over the past few months. The proposed season closure runs from 6 March to approx end of July (worst case scenario). Did they divulge this at the meeting?

The whole problem is that the modeling adopted by DPI in arriving at their stock assessment is based on incorrect and flawed guesstimates of the tonnage taken.

The best scenario for recreation anglers and snapper stocks would be to have an increase in min. size to 38/40cm together with bag limit of 5 with two over 70cm and season closure of 1 month in August to all bottom bashing including Commercial, rec and charter. Banning trawling in Moreton Bay would boost the snapper stocks enormously.

Cheers
Barry

[Jackinthebox]

Sounds a bit too sensible to me Baz.

And no, they indicated the options being entertained were

(1) 4 months every year for 5 years

(2) 3 months every year for 10 years

(and a revision of the closure after 3 years i think?)

Mick.

[samson]

oldboot your not far off the money there, the younger guy's that keep the licences working and keep the public's fish shops in business are getting penilised out of the fishery yet the old fat cats are all getting golden handshakes and not even useing their licences because they don't need to because they have the history on their logbooks at the right time.

But who's gonna run the fishery in the future if all these young blokes keep getting their licences taken off them even though they work them full time and all these rich old begger's that don't fish get rewarded.

What's happenning will see the better educated next generation of pro's will be pushed and pushed till they've had enough and quit the fishery and there will be no commercial fleet at all and the fat cats with all the licences are gonna have no one to fish them and the fishery will collapse.But hey maybe thats what fisheries want.

[Luc]

An interesting fact that came out of the CAPREEF program from Rocky is that minimum size limits have far more effect of a fishery than bag limits.

IMO, the best option would be:
an increase in size limits with a bag limit of 5 in possession.
a ban on trawling in areas that are used by juvenile snapper.
canceling all licenses not currently used.

Unfortunately, DPI&F have shown themselves to be incapable of using good science in making decisions particularly where rec fishers are involved.

Got to have big turnouts at the meetings followed by continued pressure to all the pollies.

Luc

[outsiderskip]

i think they have their minds all made up
there the lack off attendences

pete

[NorthC]

There is more to the Ferrell and Sumpton FRDC report (93/074) than the concerns raised about the bycatch of juvenile snapper in the MB prawn trawl fishery. Read the following fishery assessment for more information.

But for those who can not be bothered - in 94/95 the FRDC project estimated the mortality of juvenile snapper as a result of prawn trawling - however, there was also considerable effort placed on estimating recreational catches by way of boat ramp surveys. The boat ramp surveys throughout 94/95 period recorded an astounding 70% of snapper taken by the recreational fishers in the bay were undersized and 18% of snapper taken offshore were also undersized.

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/extra/pdf...snapp_span.pdf

The other fact that is being neglected here is that the operation of the trawl fishery has also changed considerably - the number of boats and number of days fished by otter trawlers within the bay have been halved since this research was conducted (1994/95) and 2005.

I do not post this reply as a pro-trawl vs anti-trawl debate, but rather as a suggestion that managers will not necessarily respond well to selective use of some data that may suit a cause without reference to other relevant data.

I grew up on the bay and enjoyed many days chasing snapper/squire at Green with Dad in the late 70s and throughout the 80s. Snapper stocks are certainly impacted by trawl bycatch issues, but also the historical loss of habitat (cement/lime mining of Green, St Helena and Mud), the historic ability of rec fishers to sell their excess catch and of the large disregard for size limits (historical of course!).

Best of luck to all fishery stakeholders in getting a workable resolution to this problem. But I would suggest best outcomes will be achieved if all available info is well considered and discussed rather than using and highlighting selective pieces of information that you may think will improve your outcomes - often that approach wont work as well as you would hope.

Cheers
Andy