EPA and Greenies up to old tricks

[sharkymark2]

I am getting a little weary of people in positions of power stating information that they don't have. I emailed the EPA asking where could I find the information re the 52 turtle deaths in Moreton Bay from boat strike and crab pot entanglement. This is their response:
Hi Mark

The Queensland Environmental Protection Agency reports (conservatively) that at least 20 turtles are killed in Moreton Bay in crab pots each year. As there has been a recent resurgence of deaths, the EPA has recently begun keeping records of which types of pots are used and where they are found and we are strongly encouraging the QLD Government to work with commercial and recreational fishing groups to design and mandate the use of a turtle free crab pot. Unfortunately, progress has been very slow from both the government and fishing groups, so it is time we push it along. Finding a solution to this problem is in everyone’s best interests and there are a lot of smart people who can come up with innovative solutions.

I hope this answers your question.

Best regards

Craig
Australian Marine Conservation Society.
This is the EPA response:
turtle deaths

Dear Mark,

I am the Stranding Database coordinator, and am currently going through the StrandNet database and validating our reports received since 2003. I am therefore unable to provide you with the data you have requested at this time. I am sure you understand the importance for the information received to be accurate.

Our turtle stranding reports from 2003 are currently being finalised and will be put up on the EPA web site when completed.

Thank you for your interest.

Kind regards

Jenny

Environmental Protection Agency

It seems to me that some people make bold suggestions with little back up evidence and maybe a private agenda. What do you think guys??????
I also asked what was the turtle population of Moreton Bay so we could get the 20 odd deaths into perspective.

[Scott nthQld]

That the EPA for you. They themselves either don't know or are full of shit, I personally think its the latter.

I sent an email off to National Parks and wildlife Services (branch of the EPA) asking for rules and a map of a national park just north of Townsville so I could determine whther I was able to target Jungle perch in a creek nearby (wasn't sure if it was within the boundaries). The response I got was pitful, with the Ranger saying that he was not permitted to release that information to the public. What a crock, how the hell are we supposed to make an attempt at following the rules if we don't know what they are. I've kept the emails, so when I do go fishing there, I will have something to back me up if I get caught.

[blackjack]

Our turtle stranding reports from 2003 are currently being finalised and will be put up on the EPA web site when completed.

Thank you for your interest.

Kind regards

Jenny

Environmental Protection Agency

Am I missing something? 2003 reports are currently being finalised?

Blackjenny

[mik01]

never let the truth stand in the way of a good story

[theoldlegend]

Scott NQ,

If I were you, I'd be writing a letter to the editor of your local newspaper explaining what you did and outlining the response you got from the local ranger. You could attach a copy of your email and the response as evidence.

If your letter was printed, it would give the general public up your way a good outline of how uncooperative the EPA is.

Regards,

TOL

[Lucky_Phill]

Emails are covered by the Privacy Act and therefore cannot be reproduced without the authors authority.

F.Y.I.


phill

[Scott nthQld]

Good Suggestion TOL, and yes it did cross my mind, but as Phil said, I need the Author permission, it was even attached to the bottom of the email reply as a signature from the EPA, so I avoided doing anything about it. However, if I do get caught, it is more than sufficient proof that I tried to find out what the rules were, an email direct from the EPA, blocking my attempt for information is more than enough evidence to discredit them if it ever goes that far. So I'll leave it at that, and do what ever the hell I want in the National Park.

AS an addition, I even took a screen shot from Google Earth with Co-ordinates of the area of interest to me and attached it to another email at their request, so they could be sure of the area I wanted to fish, so there can be no further backlash from the EPA regarding that. Probably a mistake, but I wasn't sure if the area was in the boundaries of the Park or not, and I still don't know.

[wags on the water]

Am I missing something? 2003 reports are currently being finalised?

Blackjenny

No you're not missing anything. The process, from when a report is phoned or mailed in, is thoroughly looked into. The animal is autopsied, by qualified personell, then report after report is put into the system. There is only one person assigned to look after the deaths and strandings for all animals along the entire qld coastline. To blame or lay blame on one person is wrong, it is the government system holding the paper trail up.

Wags
Information is gathered from a reliable source.

[Lovey80]

Emails are covered by the Privacy Act and therefore cannot be reproduced without the authors authority.

F.Y.I.


phill

Phill,

is there anything wrong with simply quoting what was said in a official reply from a government source? Then if there is any backlash from them stating that it wasnt true then forward the original? For example the letter could contain fairly closely to what Scott has written in his post?

What I find most disturbing is that an official reply from a government source to a member of the public can not be reproduced...... Surely matters of this and similar nature, the government should have to show transperancy on these issues and shouldn't have anything to hide?

[Jeremy87]

Mark if your worndering were the epa gets there data from, they conduct an autopsy on every turtle, dugong, dolphin that they find dead in moreton bay either in conjunction with UQ or Seaworld. While I'm not happy about the proposed closers and alot of the things the epa do(which as they stand are backed by little scientific evidence) i would fully support any moves short of an outright ban on fishing or crabbing to conserve these species. My trips out on the bay are made all the better for seeing them and it would be a shame for more to unnecisarily die because of a poorly designed crab pot.

[Jeremy87]

Am I missing something? 2003 reports are currently being finalised?

Blackjenny

Data is not simply collected, chucked in a table and pasted on the net. Epa data would come from thesis and phd's and take several years to write.

[Scott nthQld]

Phill,

is there anything wrong with simply quoting what was said in a official reply from a government source? Then if there is any backlash from them stating that it wasnt true then forward the original? For example the letter could contain fairly closely to what Scott has written in his post?

What I find most disturbing is that an official reply from a government source to a member of the public can not be reproduced...... Surely matters of this and similar nature, the government should have to show transperancy on these issues and shouldn't have anything to hide?

Even though I have the official stance RE the emails, Writing a letter to the paper would do little, how many people take notice of those? I know I don't. It would be much more publicised and balled up into a bigger issue by the media, and more people would take notice, so thats the plan, Do what I like and if and when i do get pinned for it, off to court I go with emails in hand, showing that as a fisho, concerned about the environment I tried to find and obey the rules, but was blocked by the very people who wrote them. Then it will be for the court to decide who was in the wrong, and these emails are straight to the point, I was given an outright NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE THE INFORMATION YOU SEEK, because its not for the public to see. Simple really, how can we obey a law we don't even know about, and when we seek answers, the authorities block our attempts.

[Jeremy87]

I don't think the EPA is trying to withhold information from you, the questions you are asking may not have official answers. I just reviewed the literature and it appear to be the case. It is very difficult to get an accurate sensus of turtle populations in there feeding areas. Instead population estimates are made on breeding beaches. If your really interested and not just on a vendetta against the epa i could probably ask around and see if can gain this information for you.

[FNQCairns]

I don't think the EPA is trying to withhold information from you, the questions you are asking may not have official answers. I just reviewed the literature and it appear to be the case. It is very difficult to get an accurate sensus of turtle populations in there feeding areas. Instead population estimates are made on breeding beaches. If your really interested and not just on a vendetta against the epa i could probably ask around and see if can gain this information for you.

This I where I disagree, guaranteed they are trying and able to withhold information, it's just these is no mechanism that doesn't need the power spin the entire clock to gain a considered non ideological response for a member of the public, couldn't expect better from the Chinese government on issues, actually a person cannot expect higher any more.

It's easy to benchmark the entrenched corruption of the system, just use the GNS science and the level of entrenched corruption across all of state government needed to get that con up and running.

Internal fall out from the GNS legislation?....not a smidge more than if it were if were the Chinese government ruling us.

Benchmarking and parallels work IMO.

cheers fnq

[Jeremy87]

Well what is the private agenda then? Sharkymark just seems to be stirring the pot here I've offered to try and collect the data for him and i've had no response. I honestly can't see how they're withholding information if it doesn't exist. I've told you were the information comes from and i don't really see why they should be obliged to give you autopsy reports for free which is essentially what your asking for when they're probably not digitally archived. As for the actual turtle population counts there are a number of papers available giving gender break downs in feeding populations and breeding beach censuses but feeding population sizes would have to be extrapolated from these counts and therefore highly inaccurate. As for how much impact 20 deaths a year is, i can't say. The biggest impact would be if they are loggerheads whos biggest threat is normally commercial fishing so comparitively low but for an endangered species it is still significant