Review of Rocky Reef Fin Fishery

[TimiBoy]

Grim reality is, after all, just that.

There is no point in getting all huggy and kissy about the pro guys wanting to share the load with the recs. They couldn't give a stuff if we were banned from fishing altogether, because it's their livelihood.

There are just as many rec fishos who disobey the rules as there are pro's; I wouldn't claim for a second that we shouldn't have pro's. I believe policing needs to get a lot tighter on the pro's, and the rec's. Ahhh the stories I've heard...

IMO the pro's will happily sacrifice us rec's on the "altar of regulation", if it means they will get some benefit, or a "reduction in reduction". Too many times pro's have come along and made it very clear to me on the water that they don't share the resource with us, they compete with us for it.

To think that the pro's will bat for us is like believing the Chinese would play by the rules at the Olympics. Nice to dream about, but wait for serious disappointment. Please don't be naive about it, or we will end up with snapper bags of 1 or 2 (that is what the pro's think we should have). How about a 1 Spaniard per boat limit? Yep, that's probably on their agenda too.

If we don't approach this from a rec's perspective ALWAYS, the pro's will be up us like a rat up a drainpipe. I have great faith in the Guys we have on the review, I believe they'll do a great job for us.

All IMHO of course. My head is not "hot", I just like to deal with reality.

Cheers,

Tim

[Far side]

Many would love to see pro’s gone for good. How would you feel if their was a large group trying to get you out of your living, how are you going to pay the mortgage, feed and clothe the kids? If the shoe was on the other foot I’m sure you would be singing a different note. Instead of bitching and mud slinging try and find out some facts before going of. We all share the same resource and we all need to look after it.

Stu

Stu I wonder if Whalers pleaded the same cause before they banned whale hunting or the seal hunters

[dayoo]

Guys,

The workshop on the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery went very well. There was some disagreement but there was a strong agreement between the three groups (Recreational, Commercial and Charter Operators) to share the fish resources for the first time ever.

The public meetings over the next six weeks will let everyone have there say and hopefully we will all be satisfied.

Fisheries will be sending out the details of what was agreed to at the workshop (hopefully by the end of this week) and as soon as I receive this Bill Corten and I will post a joint report on Ausfish so that you all will be aware of the proposals in advance of the proposed public meetings.

Details of the location, dates and times of the public discussion meetings will also be posted as soon as they are released.

Don't roll your sleeves up yet its not all doom and gloom.

Cheers
Barry

[snasman]

Weve all got to stick together on this issue, the more numbers we have as a collective group the more noise we will make. Interbitching will not achieve anything in our favor.

[outsiderskip]

just for those that dont know
pro have got to show cause if they havent caught 500kg in a year
over a period of 5 yrs or loose their endorsement L1 fishery

pete

[dfox]

All commercial licences with the L1 endorcement must show history of catches of rocky reef species in at least three financial years from 1999 to 2006. Total catches in this period must also exceed 3000kg's in total.
Most licences with the L1 symbol wouldnt qualify under this criteria, there fore holders of such licences would loes that symbol ... foxy

[FNQCairns]

Guys,

The workshop on the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery went very well. There was some disagreement but there was a strong agreement between the three groups (Recreational, Commercial and Charter Operators) to share the fish resources for the first time ever.

The public meetings over the next six weeks will let everyone have there say and hopefully we will all be satisfied.

Fisheries will be sending out the details of what was agreed to at the workshop (hopefully by the end of this week) and as soon as I receive this Bill Corten and I will post a joint report on Ausfish so that you all will be aware of the proposals in advance of the proposed public meetings.

Details of the location, dates and times of the public discussion meetings will also be posted as soon as they are released.

Don't roll your sleeves up yet its not all doom and gloom.

Cheers
Barry

Nah, I don't want that! I only need the minutes of the meeting

The average fisho has had such a shocking run so far with unjustifiable regulations that could only be the outcome of low depth personal views on 'I just know what's best for everyone in attitude' or a loaded deck right from the start or the discussion is but a show or the terms of reference effectively point toward a designer outcome only - seen it all from my time in fisheries conservation so I know it happens more often than not.

Hope this time it is all on the up and up as would be defined by a typical bloke walking in the street.

Although I have trouble believing the fishery's entrenched and bloody minded disrespect of typical rec-fisherman can just magically disappear, previous behaviour is always the strongest indicator of future behaviour.

cheers fnq

[samson]

Timi boy you know very little about how the pro's are restricted these rocky reef proposals are going the same way as coral reef proposals where most pro's got taken out of the fishery and could only take their limit to eat like rec guys and made their licences useless.
The restrictions in the coral reef fishery for the guy's like me that were lucky enough to earn a quota have to deal with are a joke its easier to throw fish back dead if you don't get 50kg or more as the quota regulations are bordering on unworkable, how would you like having to tell fisheries your exact time of leaving and arrival and not be able to go anywhere near that ramp before landing time or get fined or miscount 100 fish by 1 and get a fine or not be able to catch any fish one hour before landing or get a fine and god help you if your approximate weights are out get a fine or not being able to leave the ramp without weighing all fish or get a fine and not being able to fish less than three hours or get a fine so you just have to sit out there in dangerous weather till its leagle to come in and if that ain't bad enough 3 hours of paperwork during and after all correct or get a fine or god help you can't get phone coverage before landing to tell fish numbers another fine or can't cross a bar because its dangerous to get in at the right time get a fine.
The same will probably happen with the rocky reef fishery and most pros licences are going to be worthless its already happening as foxy said guys with not enough logbook history are getting their licences taken off them right now so why would you lie on logbooks and to say we don't want rec guys getting their fair share of fish is ridiculous where do think we get our crew they are all rec guys that deserve their fair share and like to eat fish like the rest of us pull your head in mate its everybodies fishery not just yours.

Cheers samson

[TimiBoy]

Timi boy you know very little about how the pro's are restricted these rocky reef proposals are going the same way as coral reef proposals where most pro's got taken out of the fishery and could only take their limit to eat like rec guys and made their licences useless.
The restrictions in the coral reef fishery for the guy's like me that were lucky enough to earn a quota have to deal with are a joke its easier to throw fish back dead if you don't get 50kg or more as the quota regulations are bordering on unworkable, how would you like having to tell fisheries your exact time of leaving and arrival and not be able to go anywhere near that ramp before landing time or get fined or miscount 100 fish by 1 and get a fine or not be able to catch any fish one hour before landing or get a fine and god help you if your approximate weights are out get a fine or not being able to leave the ramp without weighing all fish or get a fine and not being able to fish less than three hours or get a fine so you just have to sit out there in dangerous weather till its leagle to come in and if that ain't bad enough 3 hours of paperwork during and after all correct or get a fine or god help you can't get phone coverage before landing to tell fish numbers another fine or can't cross a bar because its dangerous to get in at the right time get a fine.
The same will probably happen with the rocky reef fishery and most pros licences are going to be worthless its already happening as foxy said guys with not enough logbook history are getting their licences taken off them right now so why would you lie on logbooks and to say we don't want rec guys getting their fair share of fish is ridiculous where do think we get our crew they are all rec guys that deserve their fair share and like to eat fish like the rest of us pull your head in mate its everybodies fishery not just yours.

Cheers samson

Thanks for that well articulated response, Sambo. Had you picked for a Pro. Yes, regs are hard and getting harder in my industry too. We learn to work with them, or we get penalised out of existence. I prefer to obey them to the letter. Costs me plenty, and takes a lot of time out of our day sometimes, but there you go, it's the cost of doing business in a big bad world.

My head, thankyou, will stay well and truly OUT. I have heard too many stories about huge, unreported catches being flogged off to fish shops at the back door for hands full of cash. I've been treated with less than fair behaviour by several Pro's on the water.

More important than that I know how people behave when their livelihoods are threatened. Pro's have a different agenda, and they don't care what happens to the Rec's; they'd rather we weren't there, and would happily sacrifice us. All very nice to be all touchy and feely at this end of the show, but when the rubber hits the road you can bet it won't be. FACT.

If your opinion is different to that, many thanks, it's nice to see there's at least one Pro out there who does it right. I'm not trying to be personal in articulating my beliefs. I'm sure there are regulations out there which have been placed on you by the same boring twits in the EPA who give all of us a hard time.

I've formed my opinion from broad and detailed discussions with a lot of people which have aligned with my personal experiences.

I will therefore state them wherever I feel it is appropriate. Again, thanks for your contribution, Samson.

Tim

[samson]

Timi my beef isn't with amatures its the with fisheries if the rocky reef goes in the quota reporting direction it will make my job too dangerous i won't be able to leave sea or risk a fine if weather turns bad and be forced to get a satalite phone as phone coverage is unworkable at the moment, the fishery is way to over regulated already when it doesn't need to be, these reporting rules need refining but they don't listen maybe some people need to get killed but hey if it ain't their family the don't give a shit.
But as far as fighting together in some ways your right we're got different things to fight about, but that won't stop me getting in the corner for the rec guys because thats where i started and thats probably where i'll end up if it keeps getting more regulated its already the most regulated industry there is but they still find ways to fine people more, i guess the government doesn't give enough funding and they need to fund the dpi other ways.

[rubba]

hi pete i would like to know what makes you qualifed to speak on behalf of us regards dale

[rubba]

thought so glad we have barry and bill good on ya fellas and they are doing good job to

[conquest]

re;- L1 fishing symbols,out of 1500 symbols 1200-1300 have been,or are in the process or being removed , guess who fisheries consider the next group increasing effort are , and the next to be managed.

[Moonlighter]

Hi all

I will add a comment here as well.

MBAA has been keeping a close eye on this issue and Bill and Duncan (Fishhead) have been feeding us views/information/advice and vice versa.

Bill, Duncan and Barry deserve a huge thank you for putting huge amounts of their time into this, and on behalf of the MBAA team, THANKS guys, you're champions!

Again from what Bill and Barry have reported, it clearly demonstrates that our best chance of getting a sensible outcome is when rec and commercial sit down together and nut out a solution that we are all satisfied with and push that up to Govt with our collective support behind it.

The alternative, and what has happened in the past, is that DPI/EPA would talk separately with rec and commercial and then play us off against each other.

I know which approach I'd rather be a part of!!

What MBAA rec sector reps found with the Marine Park process was that the pro reps didn't have 2 heads, in fact there was a hell of a lot more common ground than we thought there might be. And they happily shared their vast knowledge and data with us to help us whenever they could. I now count a number of them as friends - top blokes like John Page, Dave Thompson, Rob Brock and MBSIA CEO Kellie Williams.

The result was that a great deal more understanding and RESPECT was generated on both sides - respect that I can see from Bill and Barry's comments has carried over into the rocky reef fish review - and I might add, good on the 2008 version of DPIF for running the prcess in a way that brought the partes together rather than trying the old "divide and conquer" approach.

Pity the EPA couldn't (or wouldn't) and can't get their heads around that concept.... They are still insisting on meeting separately with rec and pro reps when we are discussing the artificial reef proposals with them at present. They seem positively mortified that we want to meet jointly with them - afraid, even. This behaviour just confirms for me the importance of continuing to work together with the pros on these types of issues - if it worries EPA that much, it must be good for us!

Regards

Grant