PDF's-Life Jackets Your Thoughts???

[2manylures]

It's mandatory to wear pdf's in Vic in all waters in craft 4.5m or smaller. The same I believe is being introduced into NSW sometime next year. As for other states I have no idea.

The wearing of pdf’s here are for when you're underway which includes drifting although at anchor they can be taken off.

Some may argue that when underway {at speed} 99% of sensible boat occupants stay seated & don't be stupid. It's whilst anchored or trolling {very similar situations} when we move around, hang over the side for various reasons & would seem to make much more sense wearing them at rest {& trolling} for the above reasoning. {common sense must prevail considering conditions}
When underway & especially on rivers the only accidents {if you can call them that} are from idiots who don't stick to their own "lane" and usually on bends. Under these circumstance not a great deal survive two boats having a head on at high speed hence LJ's do bugger-all {most times}

There seems to be a lot of conjecture regarding wearing them. For example I use a manual inflating vest for comfort, freedom and various other reasons. However a manual inflating vest is of absolutely no value if the person wearing it was knocked unconcious between the boat & landing wherever. If the water doesn't refresh & wake the wearer then it would be quite apparant the wearer would be looking up or down depending on how good they've been whilst in the land of the living {drowned}.

When I purchased my vests it was bought to my attention that for those crossing sand bars wearing self inflatable or the ready to hit the water type LJ's and the boat flipped {happens & too often} that there's a REAL possibility of being trapped under the boat. Looking up or down from the never-never once again.

There are lots more fors & againsts concerning various circumstances & after thinking of as many scenarios as possible {not all mentioned] there isn't an all round life jacket on the market that will surfice in all circumstances.

Should common sense be allowed to prevail as used to be the case? I don’t know!

Should we simply use our common sense disregarding the law made by people who more than likely have never been in or near a boat & cop the $180 FINE?

Does the $180 Fine pose some interesting questions due to the fact that as far as I’m aware as mentioned there’s no ONE all round safe PDF?

Just as an added piece of info a young boaty drowned a few days ago after driving his car with boat hooked up into the water after being trapped by his AIR BAG.

[Roughasguts]

If theres a fine of 180 bucks then they should throw in 2 free life jacket there around 90 bucks each.

But hell they wouldn't do that would they!!! more interested in revenue than actually helping with safety concerns.

[2manylures]

Is it possible they're the aquatic equivelant to the dreaded speed camera?

[nigelr]

Very, very good thread 2 many, IMHO.
I had a misshap while crossing a bar recently which caused me to be thrown overboard.
I was injured, but not incapacitated. As fate would have it, my lifejacket was not on, and I was able to instinctively dive into the water when thrown o/b, and dive under the next and subsequent breaking waves.
I was also able to swim after my boat and when it stalled, climb back aboard.
Had I been knocked unconscious and not regained consciousness upon hitting the water, been incapacitated, hypothermic, or not been able to swim, I may almost certainly have drowned.
But I can't help wondering what would have happened on impact when I instinctivly dived into the water, had I been wearing a lifejacket. Broken neck, maybe? I certainly would have found it hard if not impossible to swim after my boat.
Even though I am an experienced and comfortable ocean swimmer, I will be upgrading to a superior vest-style lifejacket and wearing it in future, but I can't help but wonder whether wearing a lifejacket is the infallible remedy to being thrown overboard etc. that it is made out to be.
I will be interested to see what others feel on this issue.
Cheers.

[wilcara]

Nothing is infallible is it. Seat belts won't save you from injury. They won't save you from being killed 100% of the time. Nor will crumple zones or air bags. Do all these things (and others) contribute to limiting the statistical likelihood of you being seriously injured or killed in a car accident? Yes, proven over and over.

Will a life jacket save you 100% of the time? No. Does it improve your chances - yes, and also statistically proven.

Is there a remote chance that you could get trapped under the boat? Yes. Is it much more likely that more people will drown crossing bars without PFD'S? A big YES. Is there a remote chance that your seatbelt will jam on impact and car burst into flames and you burn alive? Yes, remote but possible.

Some of us old enough will remember this was the argument against seatbelts when we were used to seeing the horrific scars of those who survived a windscreen impact. Also, in those days there were more organs available for transplant. There were more young bodies.

If you are wearing a PFD that needs manual inflation I would guess that you are reducing your chances a little in case you are unconscious when you go over. If you wear an inflated type it can make for very uncomfortable fishing so here the regs are being a little forgiving in my view.

Guys, putting one on is not an advertisement to say "I dunno what I am doing" as we seem to fear it to be. It is an advertisement saying "hey I know what I am doing but I am clever enough to recognise that I can't swim when I'm unconscious, or for three days straight."

You will find after a while when you get into the habit that you will pick somebody out for not wearing one, as we are finding here in Vic.

Lastly, if you still can't be bothered for yourself, spare a thought for people like me who have had to fish your bloated body out of the drink with your wife and family standing behind me. There are many memories there that will haunt me for the rest of my days.

I wear one, so I say "Yeah."

[iricangi]

We only have bricks and wear them when we are crossing a bar when its "not" flat and on the run in.

6.1 metre boat so we aren't required to wear one crossing bars, but we still do when theres swell.

My 21st is coming up and 2 things i put on the buy me list were a new epirb and a "delux" pfd1.

I was thinking of getting an inflatable one, but now im thinking of getting the 1's in the style you ski in.

Looking forward to more replies to help in decision.

[lunar_c]

Why can't you wear a PFD type 1 when on a jetski? - because the neck support will cause the neck to break when your head hits the water.
I've asked the question before - at what speed is it safe to wear a type 1?

[bluefin59]

I upgraded to vest style jackets after reading an article about some blokes in N.Q who went overboard one night and spent most of the night fighting to try and keep those stupid brick shaped ones on . They were absolutely exhausted by the morning so thats why i bought vest ones for me and the wife for $100 each i am more than happy considering how much we all spend on other boating and fishing gear . I also take mine when i go out in mates boats especially if they have the box shaped ones ...matt

[2manylures]

Lots of good points fellas & ladies.

I personally wear mine at all times yet have purchased both manual & auto inflatables for varying conditions & surroundings that I go too.

Just as an added thought for those who have toddlers or grand toddlers that go out boating weather & conditions permitting.

It seems that some/many of the toddlers Type 1 pdf's will actually flip these little tackers over face 1st into the water due to the behind the head collar.

It way well be worth taking junior down to the water when temps warm and just see if the one's purchased for them do this.

Prevention is far better than the alternative.

As I mentioned there are a lot of varying pros & cons that i've learnt of in recent times that I wouldn't have thought of.

Somehow it seems not a lot of thought &/or the correct & appropriate testing has been done on some of the pdf's that are compulsary wearing.

Once again your thoughts..........

PS: These are all observations from listening & learning NOT personal points of view.

[Spaniard_King]

Just upgraded to the inflateable type.. personally I recon they are worth the extra $$.. easy to wear for this reason you are most likely to wear it in adverse conditions.. wont save you if you get a head bump.. but at least you have it on.. to inflate if needed.. just feel I am more likely to put this on if I feel uneasy about the current situation.

[wilcara]

Just a thought when you try yours on - I went to the inflatables because although I was happy enough to wear the vest type, when you are sitting down to fish it rides up against your face, annoying and uncomfortable. Guess it depends on the type you get so try them out.

[Pirate_Pete_Tas]

I am in Tassie & in sub 6M boats its manditory to wear a PFD whilst underway. I have 3 Stormie Seas auto inflate PFDs & end up driving home in mine at I wear a similar vest at work & cant tell the diffrence after a day in mine/

[subzero]

It's like anything, sometimes wearing a life jacket can kill you, but more often it will save your life. It all about odds and circumstances.
My brother died in a car accident many years ago after he fell asleep and hit a power pylon on the passenger side of his car. He woke up as he ran off the road and swerved on the grass and collected it with the passenger door pillar. He was thrown across the seat and was killed by hitting the back of his head on the door pillar. He would be alive now if he had worn his safety belt at all times... not just when he was pissed, not when speeding, just all the time.
Now I had my best mate killed In Manurewa in Auckland day after Xmas many years ago. He copped a bunch of young blokes drive through a stop sign pissed as newts and hit him in the drivers door. He WAS wearing his seatbelt and was consequently compressed like a sponge. Ruptured all his internal organs and supposedly died instantly. If he wasn't wearing a seatbelt the odds were he may have survived.
One died because of wearing one and one died because they didn't. Overall their would be far more saved than not saved by wearing them. Wear the life jacket I say.
I have worn the Stormy Seas vests a lot over the years and they are awesome. A really good alternative to finding the answer to the should we or shouldn't we wear one question.
Cheers Lloyd

[2manylures]

The should we/should we not question is in my original post Lloyd along with a number of other possibilities & queries.

IF I was to voice a personal concern it would be the availability of childs PDF's that flip toddlers over face 1st into the water.

This is a serious issue & in my opinion & I would think many others, they should NOT be available for sale.

Under 12's in Vic have to wear pdf's & a lot for sale will drown them.

Many, many people who camp at lakes & rivers put these pdf's on their precious kids during warmer weather just in case something happens if they either are allowed to swim or venture too far. A simple trip will put the little tacker face down in the drink.

My daughter & grandson found this out the hard way but luckily no harm was done. Others may not be so lucky. It was with a certified PDF1 also.

[TOPAZ]

Hi All,
A word in favour of the Stormy Seas vest type.
They also have a manual inflating tube, with which you can PARTIALLY inflate them by mouth when crossing a bar. This will give you sufficient buoyancy if you go over the side, and you can still pull the toggle to completely inflate them.
You CANNOT do this with the yoke type, as you cannot blow hard enough to burst open the velcro fastenings, as does the CO 2 cartridge.
This advantage was pointed out to us by a guest speaker at a Coastal Patrol meeting in Melbourne many years ago, and he (can't remember his name) had been tossed overboard on a Sydney-Hobart race a few years back, and was save by his Stormy jacket AND a dolphin torch which he managed to grab in the process, and used to signal the searching vessel.

Just some thoughts...


Richard