Cheap Chinese Boats

[bayfisher]

Don't you just love how people tell you how (and where) you should spend your money?

The idea that China only makes crap is antiquated. There are more and more businesses in China recognising that quality is something they can provide and still make a tidy profit. Their Government clearly recognises that they can be the Economic Powerhouse of the World if they get all their ducks in a row. They will. They can do everything cheaper than we can, and the quality culture there is growing, as it did in Japan, Korea, Thailand, etc. There are many quality products on the world stage made in those countries, particularly in Japan, as you all well know.

The reality (take time to sound out and understand that word, folks) is that China and India will monster us in the manufacturing world. Most companies in manufacturing in Oz needs to be innovating, finding a niche where they can survive, or getting out soon. THAT... IS... REALITY...

No point complaining about it when your market disappears and all the jobs go. That will change nothing. Whinge about it all you want, it is what IT IS. Adapt or die. It's been happening for years, and it ain't going to stop.

It's a friggin' jungle out there!


Cheers,

Tim

Your not wrong, I get my parts out of china, our number one concern is quality, And my suppliers are listening. I can get great quality at a great price. There are plenty of customers that are 'concerned' about the fact i bring my parts in from china but in end i put it like this to my customer, I can make the same products here for you out of Australian made parts and I'm happy to do so but the price will be at least double (usually more) for that item because of material and labor costs. Quality maybe up a little but not a whole lot as the stuff we import is also very good. Needless to say I haven't had to make one yet .

Cheers Chris

[Outsider1]

Chinese made Tinnies are apparently already available for sale in Oz. F & B is doing a test of them and the chinese made Parson's outboards, the write up will probably be in their next issue.

The biggest issue with China is that they have no commercial law as such, so copyright, patents and trademarks etc have no protection in their legal system.

There is no doubt that they will churn out cheap boats, as Taiwan has done for years. The question mark will as mentioned be on their quality and ultimately their resale value (if any). Expect the same for cars, 4WDs, motor bikes etc. It is already happening.

And don't forget India. Already Indian company Tata Motors have taken over Jaguar, Land Rover;

http://www.tatamotors.com/

And a Chinese state owned company, Nanjing Autmobile Group bought the shell of MG Rover;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Automobile

There were over 7 millions new cars sold in China in 2006 (compared to about 1m in Oz). They expect to exceed 10m sales by 2010. There are over 70 car makers in China selling cars not yet seen outside their domestic market, but they are coming!.

The world is changing and the clock can't be turned back.

Cheers

Dave

[TimiBoy]

if they can sell at that price it's because they have slashed the 3rd world expected profit margin, nothing much more than that IMO, the extrordinay discrepency in pricing points absolutly in that direction.

A free market is a free market I guess to have it bothways would make it no longer a free market?

Interesting times ahead, esp when some fellow decides to import these uses the true cost of initial purchase/import to benchmark a selling price here in australia.

Did you know the chinese government subsides fuel at the bowser to the populace. At something like less than $1aud per litre. ..just interesting to know, the more that know the better

cheers fnq

They do produce at lower margins, but both their fixed and variable costs per unit are WAY down, as they produce so many. They have Economies of Scale we can only dream about. They are making enough money now; they are most often not dropping price points to penetrate our market in many cases. They CAN produce soooo much more cheaply than we can.

Their plant is cheaper to build, the land is cheaper, electricity is cheaper, labour is cheaper (24/7, no penalty rates, few holidays), raw materials are cheaper (volume discounts, closer to the market, cheaper terms of trade = cheaper freight) and they ship product in massive quantities (again volume discounts).

They don't have Unions telling them when they can fart and how smelly it can be.

I believe the Chinese Govt recently removed much if not all of the subsidy on fuel, in an attempt to start reducing emissions.

Cheers,

Tim

[PinHead]

There is some crap made in China and there is also some great quality gear also. Companies like mercerded benz, renault, peugeot & citroen all have plants there. The Govt gives them the land for the plant, builds the factory they want..the company provides the assembly line etc...using local labour and they build to the company's specification. Mustang was going to move there but the bank would not let them take the moulds..that was the cause of their demise.
Nothing wrong with products from china if they are made by the right people.
Some of the local manufacturers I have had dealings with don't give a rats..they seem to think that the customer has nowhere else to go...how wrong they can be.

[kingfish101]

Hey all, me again, let me set a couple of things straight that I didn't mention. Firstly, they are "knock off" boats but knock off is a harsh term, more or less, in the Chinese free market, they've just re-copied the boat down to the last inches of description. They are not the stamped marked, trade mark copy or whatever, that the Boston Whaler company offers. They are just a re-produced product that bear the same name. Don't want to get into any specifics, but apparently in China's market, everything from naming the boat "Boston Whaler" to selling its company manual is all apparently legal.

Now Secondly, theres a debate happening about the whole "quality" issue. Look, alright I do admit its China and everyone's heard the stories right? But the Chinese market is like the Japanese economy. 50 years ago All the crap that didn't work was make in Japan and look at it now? Some of the finest products in the world are produced there, and now arguable its china's turn, with huge franchises moving there companies to china for the cheap labour and efficiency. But in all seriousness these boats are actually quality. I had a first hand look at one of the boats that was on the production line and I tell you, even the most experienced shipyard company would have trouble matching the cost and quality of the boats. There were 20 odd men HAND POLISHING the boat... Now you really cannot even come close to compare that hand on labour in a 1st world company.

Lastly, little do you all know but more and more smaller 2m-6m tinnies are getting manufactured in china because of the cheapness and effectiveness. And more and more are getting branded "Australian Own" despite only the motor's and engines being fitted here.

Anyway, have fun, Tim

[bobbyb]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in.
we don't need any of them...
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

[PinHead]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in. what would we do with all of it ??
we don't need any of them... yes, we do need them
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

follow the stock market a bit and you will soon see what is going on..the Chinese Govt (which has mammoth amounts of cash) has been buying shares in companies like Macarthur Coal...I think they now have about 40% of it. Plus they have recently purchased an iron ore miner in the west. For a commie mob they sure have a handle on the capitalist system and how to use ti for themselves.
Pity our Govts have not had the brains to organise this place a lot better.

[Fido]

You see what this is really all about. Everybody in Australia wants to keep earning the big hourly bucks but not pay much for anything. So the manufacturers have got to satisy their consumer wishes. So we get it made overseas and import it. In the process the people that want to keep earning their big bucks eventually price themselves out of the market and loose their jobs. This process is going to continue. If it were not for the resources boom we would be in a recession.

That's why dealers are importing boats from overseas because the consumers are price driven.

The cost of labour in Australia is too dear.

[mangomick]

Havent I told you the poor man pays twice.
Can you imagine what the parts of the boat that you cant see will look like. They're made cheap not just because labour is cheap but because they are able to skimp on materials
Think about what you've bought from places like super cheap lately and how long it lasted before you have had to go out and buy the better quality item from somewhere else any way.
Have a look inside some of these cheap chinese 12 volt car batteries for instance.
Youll find bits of cardboard between the cells istead of more durable material.
Western countries who build articles in China are only using cheap labour so they can have a bigger bottom line for shareholders not so they can supply the goods cheaper to customers...........Thats called capitalism........Dont you love it

[Fido]

That's why Supercheap etc are making money. That's all people want to pay.

I would suspect that almost all Marine accessories are made in China.

Where are Dewalt, Makita, Bosch made? I would say some are sourced from china or at least some parts?

It's unstoppable.

[Alchemy]

Their plant is cheaper to build, the land is cheaper, electricity is cheaper, labour is cheaper (24/7, no penalty rates, few holidays), raw materials are cheaper (volume discounts, closer to the market, cheaper terms of trade = cheaper freight) and they ship product in massive quantities (again volume discounts).

They don't have Unions telling them when they can fart and how smelly it can be.

And its not just China offering this type of incentive. I am currently in Malaysia, and the local government in Penang is offering the same type of incentives as the Chinese, (ie land, and other financial incentives). I have also had the opportunity to visit a few businesses. One in particular an extremely high profile electronics manufacturer and can tell you that the level of quality control (six sigma) and general manufacturing culture was just amazing.

These people are hungry, and have a different work culture to ours. I'm sure many here would love to have the comparable benefits of Work Choices over their current employment choices!

We live in a global economy. Australia has one of the most free economies in the world, and unless our Australian businesses find a point of differentiation, then there will be casualties. Not what I want to see, but it is reality.

My guess is that it is just a matter of time until we see an Asian version of a Fisher, Rip Tide, AMM - or perhaps all three.

Regards,
Dave.

[TimiBoy]

who's iron are the using? all these booming economies are booming on our resources . Australia is getting sold by the ton and when it's all gone there will be no jobs...... then they can dump there nuclear wast here. we are the luckiest country in the world why dont we use it for our future instead of cashing in.
we don't need any of them...
sorry got of the issue here butt not happy whats going on .

Mate,

If we don't enter the world marketplace, we won't eat, drink, our sounders will be long sticks, our GPS will be "line up those two landmarks".

There will be NO investment here, you'll have to buy a horse to get around, and you'll light your house with candles made of wax from the bees nest out the back.

That is a 17th Century attitude. It just doesn't work in a modern economy. IT JUST DOESN'T!!!

Tim

[pedrodepacus]

hey guys i recently was in the market for a hydraulic press brake and i was talking to a machinery dealer thats involved in importing these type of machines from china and i expressed my concerns as to the quality of there machines as we had a chinese guillotine which spent more time broken down than working and he explained to me that you can go over there and screw them down on price as much as you want and the quality of the job or machinewill reflect that he said that they tried it and machines used to turn up half finished with bolts not tightened wiring not connected etc etc however spend a little more like an extra 50 or 100 bucks and that means a coupleof workers can spend another week on that same machine and finish it off properly . so i guess it it will basically boil down to the people that are going to import the product as to wat quality of product they will bring in the chinese will just build to the quality that the customer wants i would imagine

[nigelr]

Certainly the Chinese and Indians are not fools, in fact as far from it as one could imagine. Ultimately, you get what you pay for, regardless of where it is made.
Further to what Col said, there will always be a market for a top quality product, with all the service and warranty that goes with it, there will always be people who are able to afford it and certainly plenty who aspire to be able to afford it...........
What might be of great signifigence, is how the prices of Chinese(and other similar nations) exports may increase when their own domestic consumer markets swing into top gear.............which will not be too far away...............
Off topic, but if you look at where the cutting edge of scientific research and development is happening, it is in the US, and Europe/GB/Japan to a lesser extent.
These nations have realised it's (technology) the growth area of the future.
They've given up on their large scale manufacturing industries and put enormous financial resources into higher education, technology, research and development. They still pander to their farming lobbies however, after all, the punters have to eat hehehe.
What happened to the idea of Australia being the 'clever country'?
This is the boat we had better get our kids on board..........
Cheers.

[Outsider1]

One of the things that seems to get missed in the China phenomena is the positive spin offs that Australia has seen so far.

The obvious one is the resources boom, driven very much by China's emergence and thirst for growth. That has driven up our tax receipts so far in recent years that our governments continue to give it back us via tax cuts. That has enabled wages growth to have some sort of semblance of control over one of the greatest boom periods in history, no mean feat! It has also lead to the lowest levels of unemployment in living memory.

And China's cost competitiveness has driven down the price of so many consumer goods! electronics are a great example, computers, TVs, cameras etc all getting cheaper and better all the time. Imagine what level inflation would be running at without that!

Yes jobs and work have shifted offshore and that will continue, but it is not all bad. I do agree however that as a nation we need to adapt to the global economy and ensure our future and not just continue to ride on the "sheep's back", so to speak!.

Have a look at the United Arab Emirates (Dubai) as an example of what can be done. One of the world's largest oil producers, but it is running out fast. They have plowed mega billions into tourism, business and infrastructure to ensure there is a future when the oil runs out.

Cheers

Dave