Increasing Bream Legal Limit??

[Mark Malcolm]

I have no objections as to the size and bag limits of Bream released as I only fish catch and release and rate flathead/snapper/whiting as a much better bread and butter fish (accepting that cooked correctly bream can taste amazing also). It would be interesting to see how an increase in bag size limits to say 25/higher would effect the ABT Bream comps down the coast?

I would think it may have a small impact initially on the ability to weigh legals but give it a few years and would love to see heaps of 25cm bream in the waters!!

Just my opinion.

As long as I can catch them I'm happy :-)

[BREAMBOSS01]

i think the size limit on bream in qld should be put up to 25 cm like in nsw because a 23cm bream is too small i usually bake the,m whole and 23cm fish there are more bones than meat but you usually catch 25-28 cm fish anyway if you know where to go and what bait.

[Alex The Angler]

QLD has pretty soft regulations considering where I'm from, SA the size limit 28cm & a bag limit of 10.

[bundylundy]

As Grant Bennent has said, the results from the review of the inshore finfish size and bag limits by Qld Fisheries has not been released yet. All indications are that the size limit will be increased and a bag limit imposed on yellowfinned bream in Qld waters. Until the review is released, what the outcome will be your guess is as good as mine. I believe 25cm would be more realistic, but have not studied the scientific data that should be considered when these decisions are made.

Jeff.

[tailorboi99]

1.2 -1.5 kg fish would be 30 -40 years old i think, there 4-6 years at 23cm i think and well into there teens in the 30cm range!!! Can Someone Confirm!!!

WOW, I fell off my chair *nearly*. They must live a long time I mean some bream grow to 50cm's and maybe a slight bigger if they're lucky! Cheers for that mate didn't know that!

[NAGG]

WOW, I fell off my chair *nearly*. They must live a long time I mean some bream grow to 50cm's and maybe a slight bigger if they're lucky! Cheers for that mate didn't know that!

Its very likely that a trophy bream would be older than the average age of us Ausfishers Think about that!!!! ... next time someone whats to take a couple of fillets
Nagg

[sandbankmagnet]

Well I have to say if you think there is a bream shortage, then I don't know where you're fishing. Pretty much the same thing I said last year to the same sort of post.

We went for a houseboat trip to the pin this year as we have done for the last 8 years and the bream were in better shape than I've ever seen them. And from the look at some other posts, we weren't the only ones. More and bigger.

I'm not saying I keep bream below 25, I don't. When I surf fish with my mate we say 27 min. But some learners/kids/part timers need that size limit to catch a feed. Try taking a 24cm bream off my 5 year old daughter. That's not only a great time fighting for her, it's a great feed for her. They are not in short supply. The limit has been around since Noah kicked a goal for the under 13's.

I also roll my eyes at people who think you have to fillet a fish to eat it. And the fact they probably can't fillet properly.

[NAGG]

Well I have to say if you think there is a bream shortage, then I don't know where you're fishing. Pretty much the same thing I said last year to the same sort of post.

We went for a houseboat trip to the pin this year as we have done for the last 8 years and the bream were in better shape than I've ever seen them. And from the look at some other posts, we weren't the only ones. More and bigger.

I'm not saying I keep bream below 25, I don't. When I surf fish with my mate we say 27 min. But some learners/kids/part timers need that size limit to catch a feed. Try taking a 24cm bream off my 5 year old daughter. That's not only a great time fighting for her, it's a great feed for her. They are not in short supply. The limit has been around since Noah kicked a goal for the under 13's.

I also roll my eyes at people who think you have to fillet a fish to eat it. And the fact they probably can't fillet properly.

This discussion will pop up on a regular basis ..... & it never hurts to talk about it!
Sure some places are bream heaven ...... with lots of fish caught & kept , however as the population increases ..... so does the fishing pressure! . Eventually you may end up with many more undersized fish ..... & less legal ones!
I'd prefer to see the smaller fish given a couple of extra breeding seasons ( remember that bream dont all spawn at once) ....... to go forth & multiply ....... & be catching a better class of fish in the future!

Just one last point ...... & I notice it was mentioned hereabouts was that the bream fishing in certain areas is just as good today as it was 30-40 years ago....... Consider this! What would the fishing be like if all those that practice C&R for bream ....... became those that fish for a feed 10 years ago I knew no one that fished C&R .... for bream , flatties , jew etc ....... Today probably 2/3rds of the fishoes that I know ........ do Could this trend be part of the reason why there is no noticeable decline in bream stocks ???? ...... Dunno but it wouldn't surprise me

Cheers

Nagg

[straddie]

Heya Nagg

I also wonder what the fishing would be like if C&R hadn't been so heavily promoted and brought 10000's of people into the passtime that wouldn't have otherwise with the false belief that all C&R live to fight another day.

Back in the days pretty much the only people that fished were those that wanted a feed or clubbies racking up points. If you fished and didn't keep anything caught you would have been considered certifiable. Just have a look at the people on these forums fishing now that say they don't like the taste of fish or can't eat fish. It's legal and all, but I fish a lot in a lot of different areas and get to see everything from landbased, boat and beach and I would have to say the C&R brigade that I see would have to have some of the worst mortality rates around.

Now I'm a meat man and my usual fishing trip is to target and keep enough fish to feed six or 7 people for a same/next day feed. However on occasion to get out of the house I slip down to places like Manly harbour and C&R because I won't eat anything from there. On those occasions I use barbless hooks, try not to let fish even touch the ground and take maybe take an average of 15 seconds to get the fish back in the water.

Those big numbers of C&R's were also shown that beside being totally harmless to stick a hook in a fishs face, fought to near exhaustion on light line, that they enjoyed being plonked heavily on the bottom of boats, measured and at times weighed, held up for a few photos, then allowed to perform a triple lindy over the back to swim away to fight another day. This 3, 4, 5 minute process was all good and even better, because C&R does no harm this also means you can target really big fish like flathead over 70cm and oversize cod in deep water.

In my opinion fishing owes nothing to C&R, if anything there could be negatives. Limiting your catches to take only what you really need is a much better option. If your not going it to eat don;t stick a hook in it.

[youngy]

I don't know about the other fin fish meetings but the one on the gold coast we were told that the bream and whiting size would be staying at 23 cm and a bag limit of 30.
The reason for this is that if they put the size limit up the pros would have to buy new nets.
I personaly don't eat river bream i don't like their diets but out of the surf they are fantastic.
As far as size limits my opinion would be 25 cm and a bag limit of 20. cheers wayne.

[NAGG]

Heya Nagg

I also wonder what the fishing would be like if C&R hadn't been so heavily promoted and brought 10000's of people into the passtime that wouldn't have otherwise with the false belief that all C&R live to fight another day.

Back in the days pretty much the only people that fished were those that wanted a feed or clubbies racking up points. If you fished and didn't keep anything caught you would have been considered certifiable. Just have a look at the people on these forums fishing now that say they don't like the taste of fish or can't eat fish. It's legal and all, but I fish a lot in a lot of different areas and get to see everything from landbased, boat and beach and I would have to say the C&R brigade that I see would have to have some of the worst mortality rates around.

Now I'm a meat man and my usual fishing trip is to target and keep enough fish to feed six or 7 people for a same/next day feed. However on occasion to get out of the house I slip down to places like Manly harbour and C&R because I won't eat anything from there. On those occasions I use barbless hooks, try not to let fish even touch the ground and take maybe take an average of 15 seconds to get the fish back in the water.

Those big numbers of C&R's were also shown that beside being totally harmless to stick a hook in a fishs face, fought to near exhaustion on light line, that they enjoyed being plonked heavily on the bottom of boats, measured and at times weighed, held up for a few photos, then allowed to perform a triple lindy over the back to swim away to fight another day. This 3, 4, 5 minute process was all good and even better, because C&R does no harm this also means you can target really big fish like flathead over 70cm and oversize cod in deep water.

In my opinion fishing owes nothing to C&R, if anything there could be negatives. Limiting your catches to take only what you really need is a much better option. If your not going it to eat don;t stick a hook in it.

Fair enough comments ....... & I totally agree with learning the best techniques when practicing catch & release ( I've included some info from the NSW Fisheries web site ..... that include the indicative survival rates of certain species) Please also keep in mind that most of us that fish for sport (C&R) ..... use lures , where we can release a fish in a matter of seconds because the fish is lip hooked more often than not!

The emotional / moral issue of C&R ( & fishing) ..... Is another thing again! Some would say that we shouldn't be fishing at all

I'm not too sure about the increase in numbers that are fishing ( because of the promotion of C&R) ...... I like most others that I know , have always fished .... but have progressed to C&R or only take an occasional feed ....... I too know of people that fish for enjoyment but don't eat fish ( my little girl is one ..... she is allergic to fish) ....... would you deny her the opportunity to participate ???



Anyhow this is from the NSW Fisheries Web site

Catch and release fishing is an increasingly popular practice among many anglers. It is quite common for fishers with a strong conservation commitment to release fish that they could legally keep.
Compliance with bag and size limits and various fishing closures also means many anglers, by law, return fish they have caught to the water.
Recent research has shown that most fish survive using current catch and release techniques with the main factors found to reduce survival being deep hooking and poor handling.

Species % Survival Main factors of reduced survival
Yellowfin bream ...72 – 97% Deep hooking
Mulloway 73 – 81% Deep hooking and poor handling
Sand whiting 93% Deep hooking
Snapper 67% Deep hooking and poor handling
Silver trevally 63 – 98 % Excessive time in poorly designed live wells
Dusky flathead 96% Poor handling
Maximising fish survival

To maximise a fish's survival when practicing catch and release, it is important to follow a few simple rules:

• Use methods and rigs that increase the frequency of mouth hooked fish (rather than gut hooked), for example:
  • Target fish using artificial lures
  • Choose non-offset circle hooks when using bait

• If the fish is hooked deeply, cut the line as close as possible to the fish’s mouth rather than removing the hook. Compared to removing swallowed hooks from bream and mulloway, simply cutting the line increased their short-term survival from 12% to more than 85%. Up to 76% of the released line-cut, gut-hooked bream then shed their hooks within around three weeks

• Minimise the length of time the fish is out of the water
• Ideally unhook fish while it is still in the water
• Try to remove hooks and release fish as quickly as possible
• The use of needle-nosed pliers or hook retrieving devices can greatly reduce time spent unhooking

• Remove hooks from mouth-hooked fish.
• Use fish-friendly landing nets with soft knotless mesh
• Avoid knotted landing nets which may damage the fish’s scales, skin, eyes and fins

• If live wells are used, maintain good water quality by using flow through, aerated system.
• Poorly designed live wells reduce fish survival – particularly silver trevally where survival dropped from 98% to 63%

Other practices to help increase survival

Other practices to help increase survival include:

• Use suitable tackle for the species that you are targeting and minimise the time spent to land the fish.

• Use barbless hooks or hooks with reduced barbs to make hook removal easier and minimise hook damage
• This can be achieved by squeezing barbs down with pliers, or filing down larger barbs

• Handle fish firmly and carefully. Avoid dropping fish onto the bottom of boats and other hard surfaces.
• Use wet hands or wet gloves when handling fish to minimise damage to its skin.
• A smooth, wet surface or vinyl covered foam is the most suitable surface to place fish on in order to remove hooks. Remember, many surfaces, especially metal, can become very hot in the sun.
• Do not hold fish by the gills or the eyes.
• Take care to revive fish upon release if they appear exhausted (struggling to hold themselves upright and/or unable to swim away)
• Gently hold or push the fish through the water so that it obtains a good flow of water over its gills. If there is any water current, hold the fish upright facing towards the current until it starts to show signs of recovery

• If you are going to take photos of your fish before release, support the fish properly.

Further information

• Check out the results from research experiments aimed at assessing the survival of fish released by recreational anglers in NSW.

• Magazine articles on DPI Catch & Release research 908.3 kb

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[Jeremy87]

What i've read so far mostly been beliefs and opinions, which is pretty poor justification for developing size and bag limits. Just because you beleive something or have an opinion about something doesn't necissary make it correct. We might as well have a debate about religion if your going to do that. For this reason i'm not going to express my opinion on the matter. Instead i'm going to present some facts and methods currently employed by fisheries to monitor stocks.

You could probably simply sought fishery users into 3 groups;
1- The commercial sector interested in aquiring the largest volume of fish at the lowest possible price
2- The recreational angler also interested in aquiring relatively large proportions of fish to keep
3- The recreational angler interested in aquiring trophy sized specimens

All have an invested interest in maintaining the fishery and an equal right to exploit it. The level of exploitation is monitored by fisheries and regulated by imposing bag and size limits for recreational anglers and quotas for commercial fishers etc. Exploitation is normally expressed as a pecentage of population size based on a non exploited population. Fish populations usually produce the highest proportions of large trophy fish at about 80% population size (the ideal level of exploitation for group 3 and to a certain extent group 2 presuming they are also interested in fish quality). Catch per effort and total catch is generally most favouable for the commercial sector (group 1) right up until the fishery crashes usually at an exploitation rate of about 50%. So fisheries have perimetres to work between and usually try to set exloitation to be around 60-70% population size (more exploited in fisheries with no recreational influence less exploited with recreational anglers).

To keep recruitment high fisheries adopt strategies to protect fish up to a certain size hence size limits however a large fish will produce exponentially more eggs with a higher level of recruitment than smaller just mature fish or change gender with age and size. Hence the reason for imposing maximum size limits in certain species. Many fisheries scientists have been suggesting that maximum size limits with highly controlled keep quotas may be a more productive way of controlling fisheries rather than a system that concentrates on removing larger reproductively fit specimens.

[MeePee_99]

Straddie that is total rubbish, i you look after the fish and release it correctly it will nearly 100% survive!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gagga08]

Heya Nagg

I also wonder what the fishing would be like if C&R hadn't been so heavily promoted and brought 10000's of people into the passtime that wouldn't have otherwise with the false belief that all C&R live to fight another day.

Back in the days pretty much the only people that fished were those that wanted a feed or clubbies racking up points. If you fished and didn't keep anything caught you would have been considered certifiable. Just have a look at the people on these forums fishing now that say they don't like the taste of fish or can't eat fish. It's legal and all, but I fish a lot in a lot of different areas and get to see everything from landbased, boat and beach and I would have to say the C&R brigade that I see would have to have some of the worst mortality rates around.

Now I'm a meat man and my usual fishing trip is to target and keep enough fish to feed six or 7 people for a same/next day feed. However on occasion to get out of the house I slip down to places like Manly harbour and C&R because I won't eat anything from there. On those occasions I use barbless hooks, try not to let fish even touch the ground and take maybe take an average of 15 seconds to get the fish back in the water.

Those big numbers of C&R's were also shown that beside being totally harmless to stick a hook in a fishs face, fought to near exhaustion on light line, that they enjoyed being plonked heavily on the bottom of boats, measured and at times weighed, held up for a few photos, then allowed to perform a triple lindy over the back to swim away to fight another day. This 3, 4, 5 minute process was all good and even better, because C&R does no harm this also means you can target really big fish like flathead over 70cm and oversize cod in deep water.

In my opinion fishing owes nothing to C&R, if anything there could be negatives. Limiting your catches to take only what you really need is a much better option. If your not going it to eat don;t stick a hook in it.

I don't know where your getting your information from Straddie, but you only have to look at the mouths of the fish you catch to see just how well c&r fishing works.

Fishing for bream and snapper in Geelong's Corio Bay every second fish I catch generally sports a few minor scars around its mouth from having previously being caught and released relatively unharmed by other anglers. Sure the occasionaly fish may not survive the ordeal, but the way i look at it is like this. If I catch 10 bream and release all of them, maybe, for argument sake two die, although I'm sure they all survive. At the end of the day I have killed two fish, where as you have taken your 10 home and served them up. So its 10 dead fish verus 2 dead fish when fishing catch and release. You do the math. C&R fishing is incredible benefical at supporting fish stocks and anyone who says otherwise is just being foolish!

[straddie]

Total rubbish and being foolish! cool I'm on a roll


MeePee 99 - Although the average is probably under 10% mortality for many species, up to 50% has been reported for some Queensland species. If you would like to educate yourself the QLD DPI site has some information that might save you from making a fool of yourself in the future.

Gagga08 - I have kind of lost track of how many links and pdf's I've posted here over the years with various international fisheries research on fish mortality. I like to have a clue if I am going to talk about a subject so I am pretty well read and with some pretty heavy fishing done over the last 35+ years I feel I have some practical experience to help me along as well. How about you?

Hooks in a fishes mouth? I've caught plenty of fish with my own hook in them from releases, bite offs and break offs but a hook in the mouth isn't where most of the problems start. How many one eyed fish have you ever caught? Have you ever hooked one in the eye? Ever had them bleed from the gills? do you handle them with dry hands or towels and feel the slime? do you know what direct sunlight does to a fishes eye? do you know what decompression does to their internals? do you know what effect the build up in lactic acid has after a draw out fight? do you know what the effect of laying them on a hot deck does?

The one that catches what he needs might take and kill 10 but the catch and release guy won;t stop at 10 he keeps going and those 2/10 fish go into multiples. There is a member here that speaks out about the plight of a certain species yet reported C&R 300 of them in a week (which have a 50% mortality). In theory he killed 150 fish which actually exceeds the daily bag limit for every day he fished. And this is a guy that knows his stuff but just didn't think about what he was doing on that occasion.

At least the 10 fish killed are going to feed people, anything the C&R guy kills just feeds the crabs and would not otherwise have died.

If these pure C&R only guys gave a rats about fish stocks like they say they do they wouldn't be needlessly killing fish just to get their jollies would they.